Increasing SPAA spawn cost based on the type of ammunition they bring

[Ckasaron]

@Fourche7

Since an SP penalty would do a better job of addressing the core issue, I agree that we could do away with the crappy belt composition half-measures.

We need to be clear however on what the “core issue” is. Despite it being the point of this suggestion, the SP costs of AA are in my opinion not actually the core issue.

Rather the core issue is the irrational hatred of SPAAGs melting tanks in the playerbase, especially considering the proliferation of IFVs bearing the same autocannons and usually ATGMs which are faster, smaller, and can scout. The “but AA isn’t supposed to kill MUH TONK!” sort of whining.

THAT is why I specified undoing all the neutering of AA antitank abilities, and would even go so far as to intentionally add any and all missing antitank rounds to them as well as lower quite a few BRs of them with the expectation that they kill tanks. Then if certain contemptible people in the playerbase complain, the official dev response should be:

"All SPAAG in War Thunder are made of glass. If they see you first and kill you, that is on you, not us. If you see them first and aim poorly, that is on you, not us. We are working on addressing problematic damage models on a couple of them, but as we have seen you people ceaselessly whine about AA killing your tanks no matter what we tried to adjust to placate you, we realized it was pointless to continue placating you, thus we are fully reversing course on nerfing AA. You have guns, time to use them.

But alas, such a devblog with strong wording is little more than a pipe dream. Many more aspects of this game have been butchered by whiners cut from the same cloth.

@YaSen

I would rather give SIDAM-25s advertised SAPHEI-T shell for its stock belt, than making other SPAAGs stock grind as painful as SIDAM-25.
Also would be wonderful to add a researchable modification upgrading it into prototype variant.

Oh really? I am curious about the specs of this round - given the SIDAM is using a 25mm Bushmaster gun like the Bradleys, I bet this round also would be something those could use too. Or any other platform with the same gun.

What other modifications would the prototype rework entail?

@YaSen

OTOMATIC has incorrectly implemented autoloader in game, as irl it has a secondary AT autoloader with 3 APFSDS shells ready to fire, next 9 shells are located next to loader in first-order ammo rack, additional shells (including APFSDS) can be carried in reserve ammorack next to driver. Plus it doesn’t really use naval SAPOM shell at all. Although it seems few stages of ammo racks and double autoloader are too complicated features for this game so far.

If the game cannot currently handle two separate autoloaders, just give it one big one and remove the idiotic nerfed limit of 12 APFSDS shells. Let every SPAAG carry as much AP(FS)DS as they please.

SPAAGs maul tanks only because we are currently stuck with city clusterfuck maps. If maps were larger and more varied in their layout so large =/= “totally barren field” nor “bush hell” (Normandy, Ardennes, and Fire Arc are all the latter), SPAAG would not be able to get that close in the first place.

[Savage-SRC]

+1, finally someone made the suggestion on it!

[Fourche7]

@Ckasaron

given the SIDAM is using a 25mm Bushmaster gun like the Bradleys,

It uses the 25 mm KBA BO3. I’d imagine it can therefor plausibly use any other round marketed for the KBA.

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

Yes.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/iH08QFhWa0g3
Havent received a reponse yet though.

[YaSen]

@Ckasaron

Oh really? I am curious about the specs of this round - given the SIDAM is using a 25mm Bushmaster gun like the Bradleys, I bet this round also would be something those could use too. Or any other platform with the same gun.

Sidam-25 uses Oerlikon, not Bushmaster, but this can also use it, yeah. SAPHEI-T is mentioned in Oto Melara advertisements, but it’s not specified which one, probably PGU-32, which you can already find on LAV-AD in the game.

25 mm-series - Nammo

OTO Melara SIDAM-25 (Prototype)

poll General Info The SIDAM-25 was a self propelled anti aircraft platform made by OTO Melara during the late stages of the cold war. It’s main purpose was to supply the Italian army with a low cost AA platform based on the M113 APC, which would be slightly modified to properly accomodate the turret and various other instruments vital for it to function. At the time, there was a lack of suitable anti-air defence that would be on par with the what the USSR and its allies had access to. The Itali…

Edit: actually correct name for Oerlikon shells would be PLB-054.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/iH08QFhWa0g3

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

And yes, I am considering this to feature penetrator & ballistic-cap, despite not having a soft-penetrator cap, due to the nose-design of the shell, which brings its’ angle-performance to levels comparable to what the game models for APCBC shells.
Otherwise, it’d be 40mm RHA, 10m, 90°

At 1km (with 657m/s residual velocity):

[dzej900]

Then 2s38 should have SPAA icon again, personally i don’t wanna it, so weak spaags like M163 can be cheaper to spawn giving more variety of choice and more spawned vehicles in match. Only some particular spaags are a bit dangerous like amx dca and in general ones with fast firing 30+ mm guns, i don’t think gepard is dangerous, i don’t see much falcons and others, but for sure they can do something, but have in mind, they are big ammo boxes with no armor, their survability is really low, but indeed in some rare cases they can be really dangerous, which mostly requires skilled operator and we shouldn’t nerf vehicles just because skilled players can use it very well.