What penalisation? If they are running an anti tank belt, it costs more to spawn. No different to ground belts on aircraft
spaa should be way harder to use against ground so that they focus the air…
yeah making spaa encouraged to target air vehicles and discouraged to target ground targets is definitely helping CaS…
3 Likes
This is something i can see being added to planes, where belts with anti-armor belts (AP, APHE, HVAP etc) cost more SP than high explosive anti-air belts. This would make CAP planes cost less SP than CAS planes, and thus be a better alternative for other SPAA.
I think the anti-tank belts for SPAA is balanced enough already. Vehicles that resemble the Gepard has the small magazines (the tiny belts on the outside of the turret) purely for emergency anti-armor. It doesn’t mean that you can’t load up the main magazine with APDS, but it would be ahistorical and the Gepard-likes would become wayy too OP. It would make them completely unbalanced, and they would be propelled into higher BRs to compensate, where they would be completely ineffective in their actual jobs as SPAA.
There are quite a few anti-air vehicles that have an artificially high BR just because they have good anti-armor shells with a high rate of fire, to the point where they would be better tank destroyers than actual anti-air platforms (Yes, i’m looking at you Bofors).
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They already are. Even the best radarless SPAA for ground targets is better against air than ground: ZSU-57-2.
The exclusive vehicle that this would negatively impact that’s better against ground than air is OTOMATIC.
This suggestion incentivizes SPAA stay in spawn and do nothing, or not spawn at all.
Without the ability to defend themselves, there’s no reason to be in the battlefield closer to the CAS.
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Delusional take. I understand the Gepard and such are blatantly broken, but consider the poor ZSU-23-4 and ZSU-37-2 that cant pen anything unless its got no armour…
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you still can follow your teammates and support them. What i see most of the time is braindead players that rush flanks/spawns with spaa to get a maximum of kills and that leave when killed.
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You can’t support your team mates if you’re a sitting duck.
On top of that this suggestion is inherently pro-CAS cause this only benefits CAS, and hurts SPAA.
This suggestion does nothing else other than benefit CAS and hurt SPAA.
If this suggestion was ever added, I’d never run SPAA in my lineups again, and I’d run CAS constantly cause there’d be far less SPAA players. All the SPAA would stop getting spaded.
We see what happens when SPAA gets minor nerfs: Top BR SPAA.
This is beyond a minor nerf, this would be a major nerf.
Especially when CAS like IL-2, IL-10, etc require AP rounds to take down consistently.
because apds belts are used for cas, obviously!
so you still have mix belts for lower caliber spaas (20mm and less), and they work best beause of higher rof.
Mix belts means you have AP loaded which would guess what… increase spawn cost.
It’s a bad suggestion and only hurts SPAA and helps CAS in matches.
Every aircraft with compartmentalization and/or armor is instantly buffed with this suggestion.
IF the post is correct about their intentions, the suggestion itself is a contradiction to their alleged desired intentions.
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you need glasses…
I support this suggestion, provided all neutering to APCR, APDS, SPAAG belt composition and SPAAG antitank belt capacity ALL get undone.
If you want to play an AA as a tank destroyer on the myriad city clusterfuck maps, the game should let you without restrictions.
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From a purely history/realism perspective, throwing random HE rounds into HVAP/AP belts was kinda silly. For API/SAP rounds that matched ballistics with their HE counterparts, it makes sense. But for proper AP rounds expressly meant for engaging armored ground targets, they would normally just be in their own belts.
How Gajin did it was clearly just some little balancing trick that only amounted to a band-aid fix at best. Since an SP penalty would do a better job of addressing the core issue, I agree that we could do away with the crappy belt composition half-measures.
2 Likes
I would rather give SIDAM-25s advertised SAPHEI-T shell for its stock belt, than making other SPAAGs stock grind as painful as SIDAM-25.
Also would be wonderful to add a researchable modification upgrading it into prototype variant.
OTOMATIC has incorrectly implemented autoloader in game, as irl it has a secondary AT autoloader with 3 APFSDS shells ready to fire, next 9 shells are located next to loader in first-order ammo rack, additional shells (including APFSDS) can be carried in reserve ammorack next to driver. Plus it doesn’t really use naval SAPOM shell at all. Although it seems few stages of ammo racks and double autoloader are too complicated features for this game so far.
We need to be clear however on what the “core issue” is. Despite it being the point of this suggestion, the SP costs of AA are in my opinion not actually the core issue.
Rather the core issue is the irrational hatred of SPAAGs melting tanks in the playerbase, especially considering the proliferation of IFVs bearing the same autocannons and usually ATGMs which are faster, smaller, and can scout. The “but AA isn’t supposed to kill MUH TONK!” sort of whining.
THAT is why I specified undoing all the neutering of AA antitank abilities, and would even go so far as to intentionally add any and all missing antitank rounds to them as well as lower quite a few BRs of them with the expectation that they kill tanks. Then if certain contemptible people in the playerbase complain, the official dev response should be:
"All SPAAG in War Thunder are made of glass. If they see you first and kill you, that is on you, not us. If you see them first and aim poorly, that is on you, not us. We are working on addressing problematic damage models on a couple of them, but as we have seen you people ceaselessly whine about AA killing your tanks no matter what we tried to adjust to placate you, we realized it was pointless to continue placating you, thus we are fully reversing course on nerfing AA. You have guns, time to use them.
But alas, such a devblog with strong wording is little more than a pipe dream. Many more aspects of this game have been butchered by whiners cut from the same cloth.
Oh really? I am curious about the specs of this round - given the SIDAM is using a 25mm Bushmaster gun like the Bradleys, I bet this round also would be something those could use too. Or any other platform with the same gun.
What other modifications would the prototype rework entail?
If the game cannot currently handle two separate autoloaders, just give it one big one and remove the idiotic nerfed limit of 12 APFSDS shells. Let every SPAAG carry as much AP(FS)DS as they please.
SPAAGs maul tanks only because we are currently stuck with city clusterfuck maps. If maps were larger and more varied in their layout so large =/= “totally barren field” nor “bush hell” (Normandy, Ardennes, and Fire Arc are all the latter), SPAAG would not be able to get that close in the first place.
+1, finally someone made the suggestion on it!
It uses the 25 mm KBA BO3. I’d imagine it can therefor plausibly use any other round marketed for the KBA.
Yes.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/iH08QFhWa0g3
Havent received a reponse yet though.
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Sidam-25 uses Oerlikon, not Bushmaster, but this can also use it, yeah. SAPHEI-T is mentioned in Oto Melara advertisements, but it’s not specified which one, probably PGU-32, which you can already find on LAV-AD in the game.
Edit: actually correct name for Oerlikon shells would be PLB-054.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/iH08QFhWa0g3
And yes, I am considering this to feature penetrator & ballistic-cap, despite not having a soft-penetrator cap, due to the nose-design of the shell, which brings its’ angle-performance to levels comparable to what the game models for APCBC shells.
Otherwise, it’d be 40mm RHA, 10m, 90°
At 1km (with 657m/s residual velocity):
Then 2s38 should have SPAA icon again, personally i don’t wanna it, so weak spaags like M163 can be cheaper to spawn giving more variety of choice and more spawned vehicles in match. Only some particular spaags are a bit dangerous like amx dca and in general ones with fast firing 30+ mm guns, i don’t think gepard is dangerous, i don’t see much falcons and others, but for sure they can do something, but have in mind, they are big ammo boxes with no armor, their survability is really low, but indeed in some rare cases they can be really dangerous, which mostly requires skilled operator and we shouldn’t nerf vehicles just because skilled players can use it very well.