Inconsistent Standards: F-86K Get AIM-9Bs Without Historical Basis vs Israelis Mirage III flares

I find it increasingly frustrating how Gaijin applies historical accuracy so inconsistently across different vehicles. Take the F-86K for example — this aircraft never carried AIM-9 Sidewinders in real life. There is no evidence to support such a configuration, yet Gaijin gave it AIM-9B missiles without hesitation, seemingly for the sake of balance.

On the other hand, look at aircraft like the Mirage IIICJ, where players are required to provide detailed documentation just to justify chaff/flare dispensers that were retrofitted after the Yom Kippur War — something that did actually happen.

So how is it that proven historical modifications require paperwork, but purely fictional weapon loadouts like the F-86K’s AIM-9Bs are simply added without scrutiny?

This kind of double standard undermines both gameplay fairness and the integrity of War Thunder as a “realistic” military simulator. If balance is the priority, fine — but let’s at least be honest about it, and apply the same standard across the board.

Sources confirming that the F-86K never carried AIM-9 or other air-to-air missiles:

  1. Francillon, René J.North American Aircraft 1934–1998
    → Describes F-86K as a simplified export version of F-86D, armed only with 4× 20mm M24A1 cannons. No mention of missile capability.
  2. Gunston, BillThe Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World’s Modern Military Aircraft
    → States clearly that F-86K had cannons instead of the F-86D’s rocket armament. No air-to-air missiles listed.
  3. Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft (1955–1965 editions)
    → Lists F-86K armament strictly as 20mm cannons; no reference to missile integration or capability.
  4. Technical Order T.O. 1F-86K-1 (Flight Manual)
    → U.S. Air Force/Fiat documentation shows no provisions for air-to-air missile systems, launch rails, or fire control systems for guided missiles.
  5. NATO aircraft profiles & service records (e.g. Italy, France, Germany)
    → All service variants of F-86K operated with cannon-only armament; no national variant was ever upgraded to carry Sidewinders.

In contrast to the F-86K, the Mirage IIICJ did carry chaff and flare dispensers — and there is documented evidence to support it.

  1. Yitzhak “Iftach” Spector – Loud and Clear
    → Autobiography of an Israeli fighter pilot. Describes how Mirage IIICJ jets were upgraded after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, including the addition of chaff and flare dispensers to improve survivability against SAMs.
  2. Israeli weapons and IAF technical records (archival websites)
    → State that Mirage IIICJ aircraft were modified in the 1970s, adding dispensers near the rear fuselage and wing roots.
  3. Osprey Publishing – Israeli Mirage III and Nesher Aces
    → Includes photos clearly showing chaff/flare launchers on modified aircraft. Confirms these were post-war additions following combat experience.
  4. Photographic evidence (Airliners.net, IAF Museum, archival sources)
    → Shows visible dispensers, often of the AN/ALE-40 type or Israeli equivalents, on operational Mirage IIICJ aircraft in late 1970s.
  5. *David Nicolle – Arab-Israeli Air Wars 1947–82 (Osprey)
    → Notes that Israeli Mirages were adapted for high-threat environments, including countermeasure systems like chaff and flares.

Unlike the F-86K’s entirely fictional Sidewinders, chaff and flare systems on the Mirage IIICJ are a well-documented part of its late service life. These were combat-driven modifications, backed by firsthand accounts, technical publications, and photographic proof.

If Gaijin insists on “proof” for the Mirage, then the same level of scrutiny should apply to the F-86K, which never carried missiles in the first place.

17533603656747460852199045865729
Crazy that they invented invisible missiles

5 Likes

There is literally no documentation of Shahaks having CM’s, so please provide that documentation

I’ve asked people, who I’d say are experts with Israeli stuff, and all have denied a capability of flares being added

Missile rails can be seen here too. 86K’s can absolutely have 9B’s

image

2 Likes

Please provide as much of it as you can here, on the forums. When trying to prove something you should go out of your way to make it easy for people to believe. This includes making the proof easy for them to find

2 Likes

No source indicates that Dutch F-86Ks ever actually carried or used the AIM-9B.
The photograph may show a mock-up, test installation, or unauthorized armament attached for ground presentation (e.g., for training purposes or as a visual demonstration).

Official Dutch and NATO technical documents (e.g. “NATO Aircraft Armament Handbook”) exclusively list the 4×20mm M24A1 guns as F-86K armament.

The hangers were technically capable of carrying various types of ordnance, but the lack of an AIM-9B-compatible radar system or adequate fire control meant that the aircraft could not use these missiles effectively.

Yitzhak “Iftach” Spector – Loud and Clear
→ Autobiography of an Israeli fighter pilot. Describes how Mirage IIICJ jets were upgraded after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, including the addition of chaff and flare dispensers to improve survivability against SAMs.

It was literally flown with it with missile rails

The sources you have mentioned, and the way it’s written with randomly being bold just screams AI

Please show proof of those documentation, at best links directly leading there, stating this, or else this thread has to be closed due to false info

4 Likes

Why are we only talking about the dutch f86Ks now

Anyway gaijin has long followes that as long a a vehicle can in theory use it, then it gets it

The f86k had a fire control system that worked with the aim9b though…

2 Likes

AI moment, check flight manual for F-86K on page 5-4

Idk can i show this manual, but F-86K can use missiles.

3 Likes

The warthunder forums would be so much less interesting if people never made false and unecessary comparisons,

There was no need to mention the f86k in this discussion, you couldve just given your sources for the nesher getting countermeasures and left it at that

Mind you the upgrades your sources talk about might just be the kfir

4 Likes

To be fair is there any documentation of F-5C having flares?

3 Likes

" Take the F-86K for example — this aircraft never carried AIM-9 Sidewinders in real life."
This has to be one of the worst takes I have seen so far, the F-86K was designed to be a all weather interceptor and throughout it service carried AIM-9B’s.

You can simply just google F-86K with AIM-9B and you get a boatload of pics of them carrying it.

KLU F-86K Sabres with AIM-9B’s
image
image
image
image
image

KLU F-86K with AIM-9B missile rails
image

Italian F-86K with AIM-9B missile rails
image
image

ROK F-86D with AIM-9B’s
image

Danish F-86D with AIM-9 missile rails
image

Next time please add actual documentation instead of relying on Bing AI, Google AI, or Grok/GPT.

5 Likes

No proof of the said documentation has been provided as already mentioned above, and the F-86K having “no missiles” has been disproven. The topic will be locked

1 Like