Ikv 102 (1956) - The Ikv 103 before HEAT-FS, as a suggestion. (Old forum post)

Ikv 102

Would you like to see the IKV 102 in the game?
  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

Would you like it added as suggested, without HEAT-FS, but with standard HEAT to lower its BR from the Ikv 103?
  • Yes, it’s more unique and makes it less of an Ikv 103 copy.
  • Yes, but with some tweaks.
  • No, Give it HEAT-FS.
  • Don’t know / Don’t care.

0 voters

Okay, so the title might be a bit of an oversimplification of the vehicle - but it’s not too far off either.

Suggestion Purpose: I hope to make a case for the Ikv 102, a slightly weaker variant to the Ikv 103, to be added into the game and hopefully earlier in the tree, instead of just below the Ikv 103, as it likely would be otherwise. In the post, I will often compare the two and almost always the Ikv 103 will come out on top. This is not to make the Ikv 102 I’m suggesting to look like a bad vehicle, but instead to argue its inclusion even earlier in the tree, additionally by not giving it the HEAT-FS ammunition, and not feel like an Ikv 103 copy.


An Ikv 102 during exercises. Note the opened commander’s hatch with a square painted on it, which can act as extra side armor for the already thin-skinned vehicle, but leaves the roof open.

The Ikv 102 (Infanterikanonvagn 102 / Infantry fire support vehicle (literally: Infantry Gun Carrier)) was a fire support vehicle designed for supporting the infantry. Developed from the earlier Ikv 72, sporting a 105mm howitzer with access to HE, early HEAT, and smoke, it was later pressed into AT-service as well. The Ikv 102 being a slightly less capable vehicle than its brother, the Ikv 103, will carry the torch a bit earlier than its brother of being the typical glass cannon, in the Swedish tech tree’s first TD line.


History and Development (Click to open)

After WW2, it was clearly recognized that there was a significant lack of the proper fire support that the infantry needed. The current Sav m/43 vehicles were in too few numbers and other solutions such as towed guns or the current tank’s firepower were either too slow or too inadequate for the role. Decisions were made, and Landsverk was given the task to develop a light and mobile vehicle together with Bofors using the standard 75mm gun used in tanks at the time, which was to be upgraded in the future to a 105mm howitzer. Thus, in 1953, the Ikv 72 was born.
It didn’t take long after that for the new planned upgrades to be put into motion. In 1956, work officially began. The Ikv 72 was re-armed with the 105mm howitzer as planned. The vehicle also received improved crew protection by adding an armored roof. This conversion renamed the vehicle to Ikv 102. To supplant the current Ikv 102s, new Ikvs were built from the ground up at around the same time, but with a few changes, like a different engine and cooling system. This new and slightly different vehicle would be the Ikv 103, which we have in the game.
Production and conversion of the new Ikv’s started in 1956 and in the end, a total of x36 Ikv 72 were converted into Ikv 102s, and x81 new Ikv 103 were built from scratch.
The Ikv 102 ended up serving together with the six infantry brigades serving in the “Ö” and “B” military districts. The Ikv 103 meanwhile served with some 13 infantry brigades in areas north of Lake Mälaren.

Originally the vehicles were just intended for infantry support, as the name implies, against soft targets using HE, or laying smoke screens with smoke rounds. Although there was a HEAT round, “psgr m/49”, it wasn’t until the early 1960s that the vehicle’s role expanded to also fulfill an anti-tank role. This new role would soon be aided by the newly developed HEAT-FS round, the “slpspgr m/65”.


Differences between the Ikv 102 and Ikv 103 (Click to open)
  • The Ikv 102s were made from converted Ikv 72 vehicles, while the Ikv 103 was built from scratch. Both being dimensionally identical, with the only change being the roof and internal layout.

  • The Ikv 103 repositioned the cooling intake from the rear of the crew compartment to the sides of the vehicle. The Ikv 103, therefore, has a bit more room internally which can improve crew performance compared to the Ikv 102.

    • This also changed the ammo stowage, from the sides of the engine of the Ikv 102 to more inside the crew compartment of the Ikv 103. This causes the Ikv 102 to be vulnerable to getting one-shotted both by shots to the engine and the crew compartment, while the Ikv 103 can usually only be one-shotted by hitting the crew compartment while shots the engine only cause a mobility kill.
  • The Ikv 102 uses a water-cooled Ford V8 ENN engine producing 145 hp @3,600 RPM. The Ikv 103 switched out the engine to an air-cooled SFA B42 boxer engine producing 150 hp @3,200 RPM. This could theoretically mean that the acceleration of the Ikv 103 is better since its engine reaches its effect faster. The Ikv 103’s engine was also a bit shorter, freeing up some more space for the crew.

  • The Ikv 102 has a “stepped” roof instead of the sloping roof that the Ikv 103 has between the crew and engine compartment. The roof also extends a bit more back on the Ikv 103 to cover the extra free space freed up by the shorter engine.

  • The Ikv 103’s engine deck is a bit different to house the new cooling system. This does increase the side silhouette slightly but the engine is more compact and lower than the Ikv 102 and is covered above by the radiator which can slightly increase engine survivability from strafing fire from aircrafts.


Comparison of the roofs and engine bay. The Ikv 102’s roof has an open gap at the rear. (Left: Ikv 102. Right: Ikv 103, from the game)

Layout

kv 72 is used as a stand-in for the Ikv 102. The Ikv 102 has a roof added much like that of the Ikv 103, and the howitzer gun with larger shells. But the general layout remains the same between the Ikv 72 and Ikv 102.


Again, the Ikv 72 is used for reference for the Ikv 102. This gives you another good perspective of the general layout differences.

Ammunition Layout
Each side has 8 projectiles (warheads) with 8 propellant cases to be mounted to. Each side also has 4 ready rounds already assembled (8 total), with another 3 rounds on a ready-rack in front of the radiator for easy loading, making for 8 or 11 fixed rounds, and 16 rounds to be assembled, which is a total of 24-27 rounds.

Check the spoiler below for details from the manual.

Ammo Layout pics (Click to open)


Layout, showing the ammo storage places.


Left side storage and loader position, showing placement for 4 ready rounds, and 8 separate rounds (only propellant cases are shown here, projectiles are behind the complete cartridges).


Better image of where the separate projectiles (warheads) are stored.


Right-side storage. Same setup as the left side.


3-round ready-rack in front of the radiator. Folded and unfolded position. I don’t know if this was used to carry extra ammo or just to hold 3 rounds from the tank’s own storage.


Confirmation of three rounds held.


Other thoughts and info (Click to open)

The Ikv 102 (and 103) could open its roof hatches to cover the upper hull sides of the crew compartment, increasing the theoretical armor thickness from 7mm to 12mm. In the game, this would effectively give the vehicle’s crew compartment immunity to MG fire from the side. All tank MGs can otherwise penetrate the side armor at under 400 meters. Choosing to use the roof as improved side armor would force one to choose between protection from aircraft MGs or increase your survival from side attacks from tank MGs.
Important to note that this was not done in the field, but is just a happy result of its design that could be utilized in the game for flavor.

I’ve seen pictures of Ikv 102 without muzzle brakes but with no context as to why. A possible reason is that the muzzle brake has been removed to cover the muzzle easier for transport and training. Otherwise, it could be a balance mechanic, since the Ikv 103 already has a hefty recoil, giving the Ikv 102 even more without a muzzle brake could be used to push its BR slightly lower for balancing and fleshing out the TT gaps. If I recall correctly, the muzzle brake reduces recoil somewhere around 40% on the m/40 howitzer.

Purportedly an Ikv 102.

Personal notes
This suggestion focuses on the Ikv 102 before HEAT-FS was available (technically any time between 1956-1964 I suppose), so that it isn’t just a second Ikv 103. It will however have access to early HEAT for balancing. I feel that the absence of the HEAT-FS round brings its firepower down to the level of the Sav m/43 (1946) [BR 3.0], but also lacking the Sav’s armor and solid shot AP. This should be enough to give it a BR below 3.0, which could fill the gap between the Ikv 72 [BR 1.7] and the Strv m/41-SII [BR 2.7] in some manner. It’s not a huge priority to fill a gap so low in the TT, sure, but it’s nice for the vehicle to have a fitting spot where it can bring something to your line-up. This will also bring a different line of opponents than what the more powerfully armed (HEAT-FS) Ikv 103 would face.


Basic Stats
Crew: 4 (Driver, Commander, Gunner, Loader)
Mass: 8.8 tons.
Engine: Ford V8 ENN, 145 horsepower @3,600 rpm.
Transmission: Volvo K-16, 5+1 gears.
Max Speed: 55-57 km/h.
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 16.5 hp/t. (compared to Ikv 103’s 17hp/t.)
Armor: 5 - 18.5mm (same as Ikv 103)

Armament: 105mm Bofors howitzer. A modernized version of the “Haubits m/40”.
Depression/Elevation: -16/+20 degrees.
Traverse: +/- 10 degrees in each direction.
Reload Time: 8.0 - 10.4 seconds (in-game reload time for Ikv 103). The 102 is a bit more cramped and could be slower.
Ammunition Carried: 24-27 rounds (Depends if 3 extra rounds are stored on the foldable ready rack or not).
Ammunition Types: HE, HEAT, and Smoke. Sgr m/34 LT, Psgr m/49, Rökgr m/49.


HEAT-FS omitted, which has 400mm pen . All types exist in-game.

Sources:
Books
Svenskt Pansar, 90 år av svensk stridsfordonsutveckling. Rickard O. Lindström & Carl-Gustaf Svantesson. - Main source of history and development.
Ikv 103 Manual. - Technical manual for the vehicle.
Links
Infanterikanonvagn | SPHF - production numbers and dates of all variants, plus basic stat card for each vehicle.
Infanterikanonvagn 72/102/103 – Wikipedia - Swedish reading.
Infanterikanonvagn 72 - Wikipedia - English reading (also contains Ikv 102 & 103)

1 Like

Id love to have this grouped with the Ikv 103!