Sub 9/10 ish, typically for a “CAS” aircraft to attack, they’ll need to fly well within range of an SPAA system. With the only real exception being heavy bomber.
Whilst this does not guarantee the SPAA can stop something coming in low and fast. They do have a reasonable chance and if whatever is attacking is gun-stafing then they have to get a LOT closer. Maybe close enough for a 50 cal on the roof of a tank to deal with the threat.
At Top tier. It entirely depends on what what nation vs nation you are talking about. Pantsir and Tor-M1 can easily counter pretty much any aircraft, unless flying at insane alts, which is hard to reach vs them.
But CAS without a doubt holds the advantage vs basically any nation other than the soviets or China.
The only BR that I think CAS holds any meaningful, universal power for all natioins and vs all nations is around the 10.3 mark. With Jets like Jaguar Gr1A and A-6 almost impossible to counter without CAP aircraft.
Helis do shift that a bit, with some being a menace at the lower BRs, but do have some limitations in range, so often radar guided SPAA can hit them just about. So I somewhat consider the 9.0 helis about balanced.
The issue is that being “within range” changes very little for gun SPAA, as it is still much, much harder for the SPAA to target a plane than the plane to target the SPAA. Tracers are more visible to CAS than the SPAA that fire them, CAS gets to correct their aim by seeing their bullets hit the ground, CAS has more maneuverability, and planes have much smaller cross-sections (or put another way, are not very compact targets).
I do hit CAS with roof-mounted 0.50 cals, but they don’t do much damage (where firepower is yet another thing CAS has above SPAA).
Yeah, the Pantsir is pretty much the only reason I said “almost” in my above comments lol.
Right. Which to me is more that SPAA could do with some buffs/tweaks and maybe its time for some of them to move down in BR (those that arent overly oppressive) rather than directly “nerfing” CAS.
Though I do think its kinda impossible to judge properly at the moment with so many gaps in SPAA. Like if I play 7.0 Britian. Of course im gunna struggle vs CAS with only the 5.3 Skink. It should.
This is how I would re-balance CAS in Ground Battles if I was in charge of it. Personally, I don’t mind the CAS as it gives me as a SPAA/SAM user something to do lol Though I’ll admit it’s going out of hand, especially at top tier when the Pantsir-S1 is not on your side.
This is why I suggest an increase in SP and stop making kill assists lowering the SP cost for CAS aircrafts. 6 Kill assists gets them this low which causes a huge amount of CAS spam.
Hard lock SP Cost to 600 to 1k SP depending on ordinance and more AP rounds on the belt
Removing the SP reduction for CAS from assists
SP should be shared to all aircrafts including helis (If my Tornado dies, the Gripen shouldn’t remain low and cost 308 SP, instead it should cost more if I want to use an aircraft again…one of the big reasons why there so much CAS spam)
Removing Kill Cam or shortening it by not showing where the shell came from or not showing where the enemy is at the end of the kill cam.
Add needed SAM systems and support vehicles for the SAM to counter global CAS as its becoming difficult the more GBU/ASM/AGM weaponry keeps getting added for more nations/aircrafts.
These 2 jets have a fully loaded GBU loadout with default ammo on the belt. Tornado has potential of 6+ ground kills if used correctly, Gripen has potential of 4+ ground kills if used correctly. Other jets like F-16s possibly 7+ kills etc…doing global CAS.
All it needs are some SP rework for CAS spam to be lowered. Firepower won’t be nerfed or need to be touched as they can still perform as they are. CAS mains can still do their thing, but there won’t be as many revenge kamikaze bombing as there is now.
Bosvark and Sub I II thingy are both rapid cappers at own BR. Then spawn a fighter = air defence up as quick as enemy CAS.
Of course no point spawning fighters as enemy won’t spawn CAS.
Except that CAS plague every battle.
But there is no point spawning CAP or SPAA as enemy won’t spawn CAS.
Except that CAS plague every battle.
But there is no point… repeat.
Oddly I think this was something they added without anyone asking for it. All it really did was add an extra modification (not extra RP overall, just a new mod to unlock), and for those kills made by your scouting to mean “more” (but not every scout wants to use a plane next).
Of course we take into consideration that some people just want to play tanks and they have no other place to use them, so having a random team can consist of mostly just tank players ;)
Engaging in a Thread regarding Tank Only (this is not a thread regarding Tank Only).
Making a Suggestion to Gaijin, rather than using a random survey and expecting an answer.
Stop trying to put people off using SPAA and CAP in game. Both work in the context of GFRB (yes, it won’t help those wanting tank only combat, please see first two points as answers that).
Not like people have been over this many many times, but the general TO Movement seems stalled in their mission.
It is relevant to the topic of GF RBs mode and usage of CAS/SPAA.
Where have I said anything about not using CAP in game?
The things are relevant in a topic regarding GF RBs mode and balance of CAS. You can claim otherwise but things I talk about are affecting the balance.
I would make any cas with bombs/ rockets cost almost as much as nuke + the same system as current nuke and arcade battles where they have to leave their tank on the ground to use it. Other than that a completely separate combined arms mode for all the CAS players who will cry about it.
It’s been a while since I’ve commented on the subject of CAS because I’m getting on quite well with it.
I would just like to throw into the room that I personally feel “compelled” to do CAP if I want to win.
The ignorance of many towards enemy aircraft is now enormous.
I’ve played a whopping 50 battles today. Every second kill was an aeroplane. 138 ground vehicles and 75 aeroplanes. At this point I just want to shout my only wish into the room:
Planes need to lose markers and ground needs more markers for air, would also go a long way.
No reason why a plane should be notified of a tank’s location from 5km away because they got hit by an MG, a mechanic that doesn’t make sense on the ground either and doesn’t fit a ‘realistic’ mode.
Planes also should not be able to see zones being captured, it’s like moths to a flame and impossible to cap with CAS around.
Cas spawn on runways. This limits revenge bombing and easy cap bombing by delaying their initial response to the battlefield.
Add more Inclement weather that affects flight characteristics and visibility. Have a few matches where they need to rely on ground spotting more. There are often stories where battles have been delayed or executed on days due to weather affecting air support, not every day in war is a bright and sunny day.
Do something about bombing spawn, like make bombs not fuse in the bomb zone. You want a guaranteed kill? just drop a big bomb in the enemy spawn and you are likely get a few kills. I’m guilty of this as well.
Increase the SP cost of laser guided bombs. I keep seeing top tier matches end with one A-4E Early dropping paveway from low orbit.
And then a few AA buffs.
Make AA more rewarding to play (Increase plane kill rewards) and give them more to do like scouting
Fill in tech tree gaps so there is more AA options to play.
Lower BR of a few non radar autocannon AA but remove the AP belts or something. Feels like AA is balanced of how well they kill other tanks and not how well they performs at their roll.
Add a resupply spot that is outside of spawn but not a cap point for AA (And other tanks). This could just be for maps that are single point or very large maps. AA thats not good at killing tanks going to a cap point seems like a death sentence.
Some good ideas there, I think one other big issue with CAS is also the sheer number of planes up at once. Anyone that has played SPAAs at any rank is familiar with shooting at one plane and having several others strafe you, the stream of tracer from your guns is a giant “FREE KILL” sign to every other plane in the sky.
Here are some Ideas I had to deal with both the spamming of planes and the sometimes long periods of inaction when playing SPAAs when the enemy team isn’t spawning planes (and yes some of these are better then others and many of them could be combined):
A) Simply limit the number of planes that each team can have in the air at any one time. If you die in a plane you get a few minutes of CD (only for pulling planes obviously) to give some others a chance to fly for a bit and prevent people hogging the air slots.
B) Implement something similar to GAB, where a battle triggers and X amount of people can pull a plane in their line up every few mins. There are a few options here, you could just let the “event” go until everyone is shot down or have a timer where they RTB at the end and avoid a repair. (this would have to be reworked significantly from the arcade model, from letting players use their own planes and load outs to how the point system to determine what load outs they could pull)
C) Have a dedicated SPAA slot that that players can switch to to control their SPAAs, when they switch the SPAA would spawn in at a dedicated SPAA site, preferably safe from ground fire, to engage enemy air threats. once they switch back to their main tank, or the CAS takes them out, the SPAA would go on a CD while its repaired and rearmed. This could be implemented in tandem with B where a number of players could switch to SPAA to engage the air battle. (something like this was used in the Strumtiger event I believe)
D) Dedicate (X) amount of slots per game to dedicated air, players in those slots can play air and only air, nobody else can pull it (maybe both air and ground players can pull helicopters?) Those players will start out with only the base plane and have to earn points to pull air to ground weapons, much like how Naval EC starts with destroyers and works up to heavier ships. (This would also eliminate revenge bombing, and the “Air support” modification in light tanks could be rework to make it a requirement for planes to see a spotted target)
That would help a lot, but if I could suggest a more protected rearm area behind the spawn, some of the more modern SPAAs have the massive radar unit that pokes up out of the cover in most spawns that just begs for a HE shell, not to mention that the spawn it the first place that plane/ helies check for SPAAs, but its better to return there to reload than try to drive a bus across the battlefield. Also increasing the rearm speed of SPAAs (at least the ones that dont moonlight as TDs) and letting Spaas like the Ozelot re-arm a spent missile while stationary (Like replenishing an auto loader, but obviously as it would require the crew to exit the vehicle it would need to stay stationary) would also help massively… also proper Grid sights and fire control for SPAAs… here’s a WW2 training film for SPAA gunners that shows (SOME) what the current system is demanding of players trying to hit a plane need to do blind:
What is actually wrong with CAS ? Is it not doing what its intended to do ? Trouble is it seems the devs are constantly nerfing ,often in secret and still the forum mob scream for more nerfing and the game just loses its purpose.At some point gaijin have to say " no,we are happy how it is,play or dont"
