Hull Armor of the M1 Abrams

[Kenny110]

Funny enough in game the m1a2s armor values are not even based off the American DU package. It’s based off the crappy Swedish export package that is known to be worse in protection.

[SnakeOk]

Nah uh

[SleeplessGlownes]

@Stona_WT

Additionally, a significant weight increase from such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either side of the driver.

Ok, where does the M1A2, M1A2 SEP and M1A2 SEPv2 weight comes from without ERA???

[DevilO6]

Who stole the era?

[SnakeOk]

Devs did

[Daniel8599]

@Stona_WT

section from a document describing the use of DU in five machines located in army schools.
Source: Nuclear regulatory commission renewal license application for DU armor.

The NRC Document you’re citing is heavily outdated and has had several amendments over the years, one of which was the same year it was renewed with an amendment to the hull stating ‘as needed’ instead of limit of 5.

@Stona_WT

Additionally, a significant weight increase from such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either side of the driver.

Should we interpret this statement as to mean that you will in fact not be giving the SEPv3 any improved armor as well?

@Stona_WT

This publication does not directly indicate that the M1A2 SEP or M1A2 SEP V2 had depleted uranium armor added to the hull. Only general words that the changes achieved on the M1A1SA were implemented on the M1A2 SEP V2. In addition, this source is secondary; other independent secondary sources are also needed

Ok what about M1 Abrams at War by Michael Green and Tanks by Michael Haskew which also state the SEPs have DU in the hull? Are those considered independent secondary sources?

@Stona_WT

However, this is not the end of our attention on the Abrams, as we’ll continue to look at all declassified and publicly available information we can regarding its protection — we fully appreciate the discussion. If in the future an increase in protection can be validated and corroborated from available sources, we’ll take action on it.

You’ve been provided several estimates here on the forums and you’re telling me you don’t like any of them?

[VROD_Legend]

Yes, you commented things like “may” and “could” without any sources supporting your statements. You also brought up the NRC license that was later amended. IF there was only 5 hulls what difference would that make? This is a game after all not real life.There are lots of vehicles in games that are one of kind, whether that’s based off upgrades and armor.

[Necronomica]

Yeah, you’re gonna have to answer to these as well if you want the community to calm down even a little:

Hull Armor of the M1 Abrams

The NRC Document you’re citing is heavily outdated and has had several amendments over the years, one of which was the same year it was renewed with an amendment to the hull stating ‘as needed’ instead of limit of 5. Should we interpret this statement as to mean that you will in fact not be giving the SEPv3 any improved armor as well? Ok what about M1 Abrams at War by Michael Green and Tanks by Michael Haskew which also state the SEPs have DU in the hull? Are those considered independent se…

[VROD_Legend]

They made it up. Apparently the DoD with a defense budget of over 500 Billion is unable to upgrade the Abrams suspension 😂

[historial]

Yeah, apparently they’re claiming they have details regarding the Abrams suspension which is one hell of a claim to make, particularly without showing any sort of source.

[Daniel8599]

Man I sure am glad that the Abrams has seen no suspension upgrade whatsoever.
Source: unclassified, distribution A
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA508723

[aSaraph]

You don’t need such detailed specifics for other nations but for the Abrams its a different story? I honestly don’t understand the thinking behind this. You guys are ruining your own reputation by doing this, nobody can look at this game at top tier and think you care for balance or historical accuracy in any capacity. This has to be one of the most disappointing and eye-opening issue with this game. Do better, please.

[Gildoania8722]

By some you mean a few cherry picked ones while sweeping the rest (including amendments to outdated ones you commented on) under the rug

[Kenny110]

Rember guys Sepv3 won’t have any armor upgrades Gaijin knows better.

[Apollo_1641]

[Unknown_Memory_1]

“as well as the large armored fuel tanks either side of the driver”
What a joke, in game they’re 19mm instead of the correct 25,4mm, the damage model is also wrong…
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/xK4GPBS59dUL

[Dancing_Frog]

This does not hold water. You have repeatedly “estimated” armor values for vehicles in this game for balance sake yet you are now insisting that without information that could only come from classified documents you cannot balance the mainstay MBT of one of the “big three” tech trees? And you are really going to continue to insist that the most overfunded military in the world doesn’t upgrade the armor on its mainstay MBT? And don’t even get me started on the claim yesterday that M829A3, a round designed to defeat ERA wouldn’t make a difference.

Either balance top tier or delete it. Right now any nation besides Russia, Sweden or Germany is pointless to play.

[AREX_it_the_zero]

Those two boxes are just SPACER BOXES. This is correct.
Just do a search on TUSK’s ARAT ERA and you will get the answer.

[Teamleder1]

I generally do not get why they keep side-grading the Abrams over just giving the community what they clearly want; every Abrams in the game is essentially already a Frankenstein mess of different variants. I generally don’t see why they didn’t. Give the M1A2SEPV2 one of the DU hulls with the SEPV2 turret; very few top-tier vehicles are accurate to their real-life counterparts. I don’t see the point in not just admitting this and balancing the abrams to perform how it should be over having this back and forward over numbers no one will find without going into classified documents.

[批判的武器永远不能代替武器的批判]

no china bro.