In my opinion RDF should go down before HSTV-L, as it trades much of the mobility for more rounds and 0.1s of reload. This especially would be the case if they got ammo boxes.
Some TDs (M56, M50, Type 60s, …) have scouting which is a mechanic for lights and AAs, so I guess some exceptions can be made if vehicles are deemed in need.
I liked BN for it’s really strong APS.
Yeah, light tanks are becoming worse and worse higher you go as MBTs start catching up mobility/firepower wise.
CV 90120 has 28.9 HP/t and is tracked, that thing is loads better than Centauro. I have no idea why they’re all at the same BR.
I agree with you, something like AIM will literally always be a better pick than Centauro especially.
Of course, but those two are at least holding onto some kind of mobility advantage, while the others have same pace (or are even slower) but have literally no armor in return, which is quite weird to be honest.
2S38 is in a weird spot as even in it’s name it says it’s AA, so it’s not really built for mega mobility if you know what I mean. I do believe it can go to 10.7 and be fine there, but anything else is pushing it in my opinion.
At the moment, they’re pretty much as good as each other, in my opinion at least.
Both could go to 11.3 and be mostly fine.
If the HSTV-L did get ammo boxes, I could see it going to 11.3 and the HSTV-L staying at 11.7
True, although I am not sure if they’d add the scout drone, which can help quite a bit.
Although its APS is quite strong, I don’t think the usefulness of it outweighs the extra mobility of the Chally 2E, at least in most cases.
Yup.
Both actually have a 5.0s reload (although you need to ace the crew for the Centauro to get it) with similar penning rounds. The CV 90120 does get better mobility, though.
Yeah.
Yeah, although I do think the 1-shot potential with a 5s reload with M829A1 can be quite useful over the gun on the HSTV-L.
But yeah, I think all 4 should be 11.3 at the moment.
Yeah, I agree with 10.7 100%. Any higher and the mobility / lack of penetration on the guns can start showing.
But the gun itself is really good on the flanks (if you do manage to get there with the 2S38) just because of the 0.5s reload with decent spalling (as it is a 57mm and not a 40mm / 30mm), and almost infinite rounds (with no overheating or first-stage), as well as APHE, and is also really good at taking out close-range aircraft and helicopters, as well as drones.
Here is the 60mm MC-AAAC APFSDS design in 1978:
It’s too long for ADMAG but if you notice the diameter 0.787" if instead of using the obturator ring to scale the picture you posted you used the diameter of the 105 APFSDS which is 1.39" you find that the 75mm APFSDS is about 0.8". I believe the dart in that picture is just a shortened version of the above drawing so the real diameter would be 0.787".
If my calculation is right a DU projectile that is 20mm or 0.787" in diameter needs to be ~388,5mm long to weight 2.27 kg. If we subtract the weight of the tail fin wind, hood and maybe tracer, it needs to be a little bit shorter. So its seems possible to fit this projectile in the ADMAG round evolope that is 400mm long as the HE Slug tells us, and it is very close to the dimensions you estimated XM885 to be. The first XM885 might just use the penetrator from the ADMAG test in 1980(the 2.27 kg) that would make sense to just adopt that and have room to grow in the future.
Now it would have to use a frustum but I am too lazy to try to calculate that, so I just used a flat nose.
Using a Brinell hardness of 210 and MV of 1463:
Using a Brinell hardness of 260 and MV of 1463:
Using a Brinell hardness of 210 and MV of 1646:
Using a Brinell hardness of 260 and MV of 1646:
If gaijin changed the material to DU and buffed the current XM885 round a bit but keept the MV it would be inlign with the 80% XM774 or atleast 151@60@1000 and it would be able to penetrate the hypotesized T-72 which was about 320mm of armor at further than point blank.
Yeah I think that should be the first step regarding those two.
It can remain as a light vehicle but with added ammo box.
Just like those vehicles I mentioned above stayed as TDs but with added scouting.
That 5s reload was nice before half of the top tier got buffed to 5s anyways, so nowadays Centauro is not in a good place.
That’s definitely the case, but such a mobile and small platform with 5x faster reload can do a lot of damage in certain situations. Same thing goes for most autocannons/fast firing guns where you won’t have consistent results, but your “highs” will be very high and lows gonna suck hard as well.
That 0.5s reload do be carrying 2S38 a lot.
I’ve seen one 2S38 bully several scout drones with it’s HE-VT spam, getting basically free score.
It going to 10.7 would be a nice move from a lineup perspective as well, 10.3 is simply overcrowded with vehicles in their TT.
Mainly the issues with the development of the Army’s Doctrine.
Before Zapad-81 excercise and showcase, U.S. Army and Marine Corps spent a lot of time and resource on improving the Army’s deployablity and mobility. However, Zapad-81 demostrated Pact forces to be more maneuverable than NATO forces and contains better firepower. This means any light forces aimed for fast deploy would have little chance to withstand Soviet firepower. This basically forced NATO to turn their focus on traditional heavy forces and divisions, so they could withstand an all-out formal conflict with Warsaw Pact forces in Germany, led by USSR heavy armored corps and armies. The transformation of doctrine turned the rapid-deploying forces whose experience came from the war in Vietnam to traditional heavy armored units, represented by the U.S. heavy divisions deployed from 1986 to the late 1990s. This transformation basically terminated everything without enough firepower, like HSTV-L, and turned to things with more firepower, like Armored Gun Systems. The need for HSTV was no longer existed…Until 21st century.
I disagree that the HSTV-L is a bad tank. In fact in my opinion it is the best top tier light tank.
As an enjoyer of unique tanks, I was immediately drawn to the HSTV-L when I was finishing out the USA tree.
So when I started playing it I had a quite positive outlook on it. Mostly because I found it fun to play. Even stock it is pretty fast, and upgraded it’s usually the fastest vehicle on the battlefield. Not only that, the rounds are incredibly high velocity and easy to aim. The HSTV-L has excellent targeting speed. It also reverses decently.
The HSTV-L also has a semi-crewless turret. The turret is low profile, and you have 17 degrees of gun depression (over the sides albeit, over the front its more like 15). Essentially, if you hull down properly (which isn’t difficult at all on most maps) you can become invincible to all but HE rounds.
On maps that don’t have good hull down spots, which are exceedingly few, you can use your small size to sneak past enemies and catch them off guard.
Despite its low caliber, the XM885 round spalls surprisingly well. It usually takes 2-3 shots to kill an enemy, though Gaijin moments can happen and you’ll take 5+ sometimes.
Compared to the HSTV-L, the 2S38 is a complete joke. Slow, poor spalling, poor survivability, huge target, ammo in turret, and very poor gun depression. Which means you have to play it sort like a pseudo-MBT. Meanwhile the HSTV-L has its own unique fun and effective playstyle.
I have a 2.3 K/D in the HSTV-L, which fits comfortably into my average of around 2.0-3.0 K/D for vehicles I’ve played recently.
It probably is one of the best top tier light tanks, but that isn’t saying much imo.
All top tier light tanks are not that impressive in my opinion.
Some of the best light tanks you can play are not in top tier, like the CV90105, BMD-4 / -4M, M18 hellcat, Begleitpanzer 57, 2S38 etc…
HSTV-L is the only one that is fairly unique at Top Tier, and can do fairly well in some cases - but I would not say it’s a great vehicle.
Stock APFSDS is quite nice to have, as well as having the best reload possible (since it’s an autoloader).
I can understand why you found it a somewhat decent stock experience.
It indeed is one of the fastest vehicles on the battlefield, but I cannot tell people enough that at Top Tier, that speed difference is honestly not as much as other BRs’ light tanks:
Yes, I do not deny that.
In front I believe it’s more like 12.
Yes, although some cases APFSDS can spall and get the turret ring and breech very easily - sometimes even the ammo or autoloader.
This makes it so that you are mostly invincible hull-down but often have to repair for at the very least 20 seconds every time you’re hit, if not more - which is fine for the most part.
Against USSR / Chinese MBTs, I would definitely agree with you.
However, it struggles to kill NATO MBTs, especially the Leopards - which get spall liners and get safe ammo due to the blowout panel for the turret bustle.
I usually find that you can kill T-80s with 1 or 2 shots, and T-90Ms with 2-3 shots.
This is fine, as you get 26 rounds (let’s assume you take 3 rounds of Proxy), meaning that you can get around 9 ground kills and 1 air kill before having to go back to a capture point to rearm.
This is perfectly fine.
However, I often find that you have to use 3-6 rounds for Leopards and a bit less for NATO MBTs.
If you were only to face NATO MBTs, though you often face Germany / Sweden / Italy with USSR, I’d say you’d get around 5 ground kills + 1 air kill, which is much worse.
My problem with the HSTV-L mostly is the lack of ammo.
You are forced to play around capture points so that you can rearm on them, which often means that you cannot stay on the flanks or flank for too long without running out of ammo.
Most other light tanks do not have that issue, especially the 2S38.
At the same time, the 2S38 can UFP most vehicles it faces in a full downtier.
Look at the 9.3 MBTs, and even some 9.7s.
HSTV-L cannot do that, and must rely on its mobility / other aspects to do well.
I’ve never played around a capture point with HSTVL, it’s not necessary as it has 26 rounds which is more than enough for a 12:1 KDR if I was perfectly consistent. Since I’m 2:1 KDR I on average use ~4 rounds of the 26.
Provide us the screenshot of your 15+ frag match. If you don’t, you’ve never had to play around capture points or you intentionally brought less ammo than full.
Not only that but your first point discredits your post:
These are as good at their BRs as HSTVL is at its BR.
HSTVL is THE fastest vehicle on the battlefield, not one of, the only one.
VT1-2 comes close.
As for spalling, stop relying on spalling. If you need practice go back to 6.7 USA only using APCR.
Me using 90mm APCR helped me aim better and prepared me for APDS and APFSDS far better than any other practice.
Use the worse spalling ammo to learn how to aim better.
I have already told you that there are a bunch of other variables for why you may need to use more ammo than you theoretically need.
In reality, you can miss your shots, or need to shoot for the engine, or cannon barrel etc…
This all adds up.
So
even this is not accurate.
It’s more like an average of 6 / 7 kills in total without rearming against T-80s / T-90Ms etc, and an average of 3 / 4 kills in total without rearming against NATO MBTs like the Leopard 2A7Vs and Strv 122s
Although, you may not always face MBTs, so it may be a bit higher than that.
I’d have to disagree.
If that were the case, you’d see it in the performance of HSTV-Ls and see good players not complaining about it, and see competitive squadrons use them in SRB.
Sure, though I am not denying that.
The problem is that it’s not that much faster than the average MBT - only really noticeable on large maps imo.
???
I wonder why people complain about British only having solid shot and shell shattering APDS… I guess they just have to get good. /s
SRB, the top squadron, doesn’t use light tanks at all in their winning matches against the other top squadrons.
Using SRB is a good way to get an MBT and multi-role fighter bias.
I can tell you from the limited [60 people] checking I’ve done, ALL of those 60 players’ top vehicles for SRB are MBTs for the higher BRs. Mostly NATO.
Zero light tanks, some fighter aircraft.
Fair point.
Although I must add that if they don’t run 4 tanks or an SPAA, they’d run something along the lines of a 2S38 - maybe the HSTV-L if they don’t have it.
How do you check this?
NATO MBTs are generally better than Russian / Chinese MBTs - at least in 1v1 situations.
I’ve made it clear that I think the 2A7V / 122B should already be 12.3 - maybe the Type 10 / TKX too.
Depends on the BR.
8.7, for example, BMP-2 is very useful - as well as 2S38 for 10.3 / 10.7.
Same with fighter aircraft, such as J-7E.
Usually if something is good in SRB, it is pretty good in GRB, and sometimes ARB as well.
An outlier being the ISU-152, for example.
That’s the issue… The round is not consistent, making even the best players not consistent with it.
Playing 22 games in it doesn’t automatically make your claims valid. When was the last time you played the hstvl?
Misleading. On paper it is the fasted tank in the game however in uneven terrain, many MBTs can keep pace or fall slightly behind it. Speed matters because you can get to a position quickly and setup ambushes or snipe, however if the enemy is 2-5 seconds away from you, it is pointless. you cannot catch them in a vulnerable spot unlike if an enemy was 15-30 seconds away from you. That’s what made the M18 and other early fast light tanks so good.
Terrible advice. You’re comparing APCR, which has significant penetration (at it’s br as well as more flat pen than the XM885) against most tanks that have near flat angles (like the breach, and turret face) to a below average APFSDS against tanks that have spall liners, ERA and composites at an angle.
How can anyone take you seriously?
Ah yes, because the 22 games in the HSTVL really showed us your exploits…
Manually. I checked the top 5 squadrons, mostly RO6 since I was going to join them before I found a different squadron to join that was less competitive. My application was even accepted before I pulled out.
Went by battles completed and just looked.
Also 2A7V/122B aren’t notably better than Abrams or other Leopard 2A5+ vehicles. Also if you’re considering Type 10 then Ariete AMV is in the same boat.
And no, the SRB meta is different from the GRB meta.
You can run an Ariete MBT in SRB and do as well as if you’re playing a 2A7V. In GRB results will likely change.
@HondaCivici
All rounds are consistent in penetration.
Also I have over 50 hours in auto-light tanks as well [Yes, I am counting my Type 89 battles since I mostly played it when it was under-BR’d at 8.3], which I played this month multiple times.
The fact your post claims that video evidence is paper discredits your entire post.
Your post also resorts to personal attacks which further discredits your post.
With your final sentence being an outright lie about battles in auto-lights.
Spoiler
Just cause I have a life doesn’t give you the right to demean others, especially when they clearly have experience; Stop with the “You need 10,000 hours in WT to have an opinion!” nonsense. It’s obviously done to dismiss valid statements and provoke others.
And yes, I say 10,000 hours cause if I had 100 battles for every single one of my 780+ actively played vehicles, I’d need a minimum of 8000 hours in battles. I’m at about half that, and I play some vehicles more than others.
Honda… you have less than HALF my average lifespan in realistic battles. 1 of my battles on my statcard is worth over 2 of your battles.
Make statements without bringing up stats for once.
Thanks for admitting my post is 100% correct by having a post that resorts to personal attacks and claiming reality is paper.
What they play in GRB doesn’t necessarily mean that they mostly play it in SRB.
I play the Black Prince and M1128 quite a lot in GRB but they are not competitive in SRB.
I don’t think so.
Abrams, although being a bit more mobile and having a 5s reload, does not have nearly as good survivability nor armour, and has a slightly worse round.
This is especially the case if you take its ERA.
Type 10 is much better than the Ariete AMV.
I don’t think you realise how big they differ.
If that’s the case, why do I never see them being played by competitive squadrons during SRB?
I’m pretty sure some would love to use them if they had it.
If anything, Ariete can hold off far better in GRB than in SRB, as the skill difference can be more apparent, and the less you will have to engage people head-on.
Abrams has a superior round to DM53 fired out of a shorter cannon.
Ariete AMV and Type 10 both have bad armor.
M1A1 and Type 10 bouncing bad shots doesn’t make their armor suddenly good.
That and it’s off-topic.
HSTVL remains the fastest tank in the game firing the 2nd best round out of auto-cannons.
