HSTV-L has an undeveloped ammo

[Lolman345]

@RemoveCASfromGRB

If black is 90mm, and striped is XM-274 that must mean the smaller beige is 75mm AD but if your compare their lengths and widths, none of them add up to any of their known dimensions.

While in the Stoner, taps themselves, Black is said to be THE 90mm CTA casing but we have photos of the black casing that is known to be XM885.

Would not make sense for both black canisters to be 75mm though the rear one’s width is far greater than the known 75mm canisters, and said known black XM885 canisters are the same width as the beige ones.

To that same end too, Stoner directly states that the ammunition configuration of the 75mm has been changed a grand total of 3 times, so there is a possibility that the black XM885 canisters are simply the final version of the 3 rounds that we know of, the shorter AD round, the beige normal XM274 round, and the last delta version XM274 round, possibly the black one.

The tall large round in the rear of the picture to me is the 90mm, while the one laying down seems to be the last make of the 75mm, which would line up with there being 3 makes, and its the one Stoner uses as an example for the last make XM274.

[RemoveCASfromGRB]

@Lolman345

so there is a possibility that the black XM885 canisters are simply the final version of the 3 rounds that we know of, the shorter AD round, the beige normal XM274 round, and the last delta version XM274 round, possibly the black one.

This is the what myself and Calvin essentially came to agree upon. Original XM274 was beige but at some point was changed to black casing.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

So, say the Hstvl becomes an 11.3 as an example, then every 10.3 is screwed.

So, let’s assume the 2S38 is in a full downtier to 9.3.

Well would you look at that, you can frontally pen and kill everything you see at a full downtier with relative ease, and even more easily from the side and rear.

See how I can change that into an argument for how OP the 2S38 is at the moment, and that it should be 10.7, with the rest of the great 10.7 premium MBTs?

Let’s look at the HSTV-L in a full downtier at 11.3:

I see. So you think it’s fine for the 2S38 to easily UFP full downtier MBTs but not the HSTV-L LFPing MBTs?
I personally think it’s more fair for the 2S38 to be 10.7 and the HSTV-L at 11.3 (currently) or 12.0 with Delta 6 (maybe 12.3 after BR decompression, which would also include the Leopard 2A7Vs / 122s), but you do you.

@UniqueScorpions

As it is a vehicle that can play to its strengths insanely well.

I wish that were the case.
The biggest problem I find is that you cannot spare to waste any ammo, since you only get 26 rounds. That means I even have to sacrifice taking HE-VT to be able to stay on the flanks for as long as you need to before being able to capture a point and resupply. It also means that every shell that does little to no damage (which often does happen considering it’s still just a 76mm APFSDS and spall liners are found plentiful at 12.0), or non-pens (on the LFP of a Leoapard 2A7V, or the side of BVMs / T-90Ms, for example) can be felt in the lack of ammo you start having.
You see, the 2S38 does not have that issue, and works even better as an pseudo-SPAA because of its incredible ammo reserve.
The only thing that might be better as a psedo-SPAA than the 2S38 could honestly just be the RDF now, although its firerate, generation thermals, and gun elevation are still worse.

@UniqueScorpions

It’s a 57MM vs a 76mm, there’s more room for ammo with smaller shells,

The spalling is not that much larger to the point where you can notice the difference.
Although the extra penetration is nice, I can’t state enough how useful a 0.5s reload is in terms of picking off enough crew members, or taking out barrels, or taking out spall liners / ERA on tanks that you face before they start reacting and shoot back.

[UniqueScorpions]

TL:DR

Nice cherry pick. All practically light tanks for the 2s38, but all heavier armor targets for the HSTVL. Very nice bias.

Again, In frontally assaults the hstvl is far more likely to survive…

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

Nice cherry pick. All practically light tanks for the 2s38, but all heavier armor targets for the HSTVL. Very nice bias.

Did you even read?
I chose every nations’ MBTs at 9.3 and put them against the 2S38 frontally, how can that be biased?
Seems like you’re just trying to deny what’s reality.
Practically none of them are able to stop the 2S38’s rounds, and many of them can get 1-shot through the turret ring, or even the UFP.

@UniqueScorpions

Again, In frontally assaults the hstvl is far more likely to survive…

Again, the 0.5s can be very helpful, and although the 2S38 is a bigger target, so are the enemies.

And if the HSTV-L was that broken as you say it is, surely I’d see it in the stats you have on it compared to other vehicles you play?

[AlvisWisla]

Use 10.0 for 2S38 [same standard you used for HSTVL], or 10.7 for HSTVL [full downtier].
Stop having double standards as it’s obvious your post lied to defend 2S38.

[rainy2000]

@AlvisWisla

Use 10.0 for 2S38, or 10.3 for HSTVL.

???
I’ve used full downtiers for both, assuming HSTV-L can be suitable for 11.3.
What double standard are you talking about.

[AlvisWisla]

No you didn’t. HSTVL is 11.7, a full downtier for HSTVL is 10.7.

[rainy2000]

Read what I posted, again.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

So, say the Hstvl becomes an 11.3 as an example, then every 10.3 is screwed.

…

Please read the discussion before calling someone out for double standards.

[AlvisWisla]

HSTVL vs 10.7s:

Spoiler

Of course neither 2S38 nor HSTVL will be looking straight at tanks when engaging unless played incorrectly.

Missing assets from your 2S38 comparison:

Spoiler

[rainy2000]

@AlvisWisla

HSTVL vs 10.7s:

Sure, and I can clearly see the difference between the 2S38 in a full downtier compared to the HSTV-L in a full downtier.

@AlvisWisla

Of course neither 2S38 nor HSTVL will be looking straight at tanks when engaging unless played incorrectly.

HSTV-L’s lack of ammo makes it so that you have to force yourself off the flank to rearm behind your friendly team, or go to a uncontested capture point and have the need to deal with MBTs head-on.
This is not the same case as with the 2S38, since you do not need to worry about the lack of ammunition.
Again, read what I have posted previously.

@rainy2000

The biggest problem I find is that you cannot spare to waste any ammo, since you only get 26 rounds. That means I even have to sacrifice taking HE-VT to be able to stay on the flanks for as long as you need to before being able to capture a point and resupply. It also means that every shell that does little to no damage (which often does happen considering it’s still just a 76mm APFSDS and spall liners are found plentiful at 12.0), or non-pens (on the LFP of a Leoapard 2A7V, or the side of BVMs / T-90Ms, for example) can be felt in the lack of ammo you start having.
You see, the 2S38 does not have that issue, and works even better as an pseudo-SPAA because of its incredible ammo reserve.

@AlvisWisla

Missing assets from your 2S38 comparison:

Those missing assets both support the fact that the 2S38 can frontally kill every MBT in a full downtier with relative ease, unlike the HSTV-L.

[AlvisWisla]

There is no difference.
Most 10.7s are frontally penned by HSTVL, same as 2S38.
Welcome to their BRs.

HSTVL doesn’t have a lack of ammo for tanks. It has over 12 frags worth of ammo.
If I check your stats will I see 12:1 KDRs everywhere where you genuinely have a concern about 26 rounds? Let’s find out.
I see 3:1 with T-80, and ~4:1 with M4A2. That’s 6 - 12 shots fired from HSTVL on average.

Spoiler

The amount of ammo in HSTVL objectively speaking does not concern your stats, you’re not enough of a player to use even half of the ammo on average.
I’ve yet to use more than half the ammo in HSTVL in any match and I’ve done 22 matches so far.
I’ve used half the ammo in exactly 1 of those 22 matches when I got 6 frags against Leopard 2A5-7s and one Mi-35M. So the ammo count does not concern me either.

My average ammo use in HSTVL per match is like 5 rounds fired, I do bring full ammo for the mythical 10+ frag match.

[rainy2000]

@AlvisWisla

Most 10.7s are frontally penned by HSTVL, same as 2S38.

You can reliably LFP the T-80B and detonate its ammo, you can also probably do it with the Challengers too, and the Ariete is a joke when it comes to hull armour. Every other MBT at 10.7 are immune for the turret and UFP, with the LFP only killing the driver and maybe gunner.
However, you can UFP almost every MBT in a full downtier for the 2S38, and can even be killed through the turret as well.
There’s no reason why the 2S38 should be 10.3 still.

@AlvisWisla

HSTVL doesn’t have a lack of ammo for tanks. It has over 12 frags worth of ammo.

I don’t think you have played the HSTV-L enough to know the short comings with the round it gets.

You are not killing, on average, an MBT with only 2 rounds, let alone 3 for most NATO MBTs.
It’s more like 4, especially considering you may go for barrels, tracks, engines and perhaps miss from the time to time.
Your ammo is actually worth, on average, 5 to 6, although it may be more like 7 to 8 if you’re only facing T-Series tanks or Chinese MBTs.

@AlvisWisla

If I check your stats will I see 12:1 KDRs everywhere where you genuinely have a concern about 26 rounds? Let’s find out.
I see 3:1 with T-80, and ~4:1 with M4A2. That’s 6 - 12 shots fired from HSTVL on average.

That’s one of the weirdest ways to disprove that point.

No, you don’t get to use K/D to say that ammo count does not matter.

M4A2 and T-80 are such strange examples, as they do not often require multiple shots to kill a target, nor do they suffer from the lack of penetration that the HSTV-L has.
Turns out, you need more ammo the worse the round is for the BR - who would have guessed?
It’s like saying if the PUMA’s 30mm takes around 10 shots to kill a tank from the side, and I average around 3/4 kills, so that must mean that around 80 rounds of APFSDS should be more than enough!

@AlvisWisla

I’ve yet to use more than half the ammo in HSTVL in any match and I’ve done 22 matches so far.

You also haven’t been doing much in those games either…

What, a 1.59 Kill per respawn? It isn’t that great, even when these stats seems to be mostly from after the 1.0s reload buff.

@AlvisWisla

I’ve used half the ammo in exactly 1 of those 22 matches when I got 6 frags against Leopard 2A5-7s and one Mi-35M. So the ammo count does not concern me either.

1 out of 22 matches, for 2 kills per death? I like those odds.
And I’d be happy to see that replay.

[AlvisWisla]

@rainy2000 Sir, not everyone has 8+ hours a day to play War Thunder.
I’ve at most used 3 rounds on a target, and that was primarily the Mi-35.

[rainy2000]

@AlvisWisla

Sir, not everyone is unemployed with 16 hours of free time each day like yourself with only WT to play.

Ad hominem much?

@AlvisWisla

Also the fact you claim that 75% of WT players are bad at the game is proof enough never to take you seriously again.
Anyone that looks down on any amount of players have zero valid opinions.

Where did I state that 75% of WT players are bad at the game?
And I am not criticizing your skill; I am criticizing the lack of activity that you are doing in each of those matches mainly because of the lack of potential the HSTV-L has in those matches (and in general too).

[AlvisWisla]

HSTVL when stock is barely faster than an Abrams, of course activity is going to be low. It’s also a light tank where its primary purpose is scouting which isn’t recorded on the player card.

[rainy2000]

@AlvisWisla

HSTVL when stock is barely faster than an Abrams

That is true, but that doesn’t mean you can’t flank - everything can but it just takes more effort to do so.
Even with it being fully spaded, its top speed is roughly 22% better than the Average MBT, and its acceleration is only 30% faster.
For comparison, the hellcat has roughly 60% higher top speed, and 70% better accerlation than the heavy/medium tanks at its BR.
Another example is BMD-4M, which has roughly 27% higher top speed, 80% better acceleration than the average MBT at its own BR.
Needless to say, light tanks at top tier are very niche at where they can end up. The only real thing I’d say the HSTV-L has over the MBTs it faces is the very small silhouette and pretty good gun depression, although I often think the Type 10 can do a better job in most cases.

@AlvisWisla

It’s also a light tank where its primary purpose is scouting which isn’t recorded on the player card.

True, and so don’t assists get counted.
However, you can’t just say that it is its main objective. Light tanks should be just as good at killing vehicles as the vehicles at its own BR. That’s how their BRs are chosen, not by how well it can spot targets and get assists from them. Otherwise the Wiesel 1A4 and M3A3 Bradley would be 12.0 by now xD

[HondaCivici]

You have 4500 hrs on this game…

You can’t be serious.

edit: I’m not doing this to make fun of you. I could care less about how many hours you play a day. But if you’re gonna start making fun of people for playing this game a lot, at least look yourself in the mirror.

Again, the reason why he brought up how many games you played in the HSTV-L is because you pretend to speak from experience when in reality you have little to no experience playing in that vehicle. This is the same reason why I called you out when you claimed that the hellfires are the equivalents to the Vikhrs. You had little to no experience using hellfires in GRB. (If you wanna talk about hellfires, do it in a different thread. I’m giving an example)

[rainy2000]

(More than me actually lol)