Trying to grind my Tornado F3 and I cannot for the life of me make use of Skyflash (Dogfight) missiles. I’ve literally got a zero-percent hit rate with them after probably a hundred attempts over the weekend to use them.
I’ve looked up what I can on them. I understand they turn to the target instantly unlike the later SuperTEMP ones that I don’t have yet. I try to make sure I use them in a 3-6km range. Any lower and the radar modes of Tornado F3 will never lock, I don’t see a point in trying to shoot further away when I already achieve 0% hit-rates at the more ideal range according to most posts.
I use the SRC PD HDN Radar, and flip on ACM to get a target in front of me when applicable. I try to make sure I’m not shooting at targets at higher altitude, and I try to have them coming towards me. Still, zero damn percent.
Wtf am I doing wrong with this missile? I cannot find a singular use for it, every single plane seems able to whiff it like it’s an AIM-9B or something.
Skyflash DF is typically an effective missile out to about 8-10km. So your launch ranges should be fine. The radar gives you accurate ranging information you can use to judge whether a target is in range. This changes based upon your speed, and alt as well as the targets speed and alt. So its always great for judging what is going on
Top line [1] indicates the maximum range the missile can reach
middle (longer) line [2] is the relative distance the target is on that scale
bottom line [3] is the minimum range of the missile.
With Aim-9Ls, you’ll also have a box, that is the LSZ. If you fire in that box, the target is unlikely to defeat the missile kinematically, its currently missing from the Skyflash STs unfortunately
So as long as the target is between the max and min range, it can hit the target (not that it will, a bad shot is a bad shot) but if the long line is closer to the bottom than the top then its got a reasonably good chance unless it is defeated
Now I would need to see replays to precisely why the missile failed to hit but there are some possibilities. The first and most obvious. The target defended, if you are low, firing at something low the missile will be defeated by Multipathing. Also Skyflash DFs arent the most… energetic missile, and can be kinematically defeated quite easily
Whilst I dont have a huge amount of evidence for this… I have noticed the Skyflash DFs behaving wierdly when fired on PD. Personally, I tend to use the TWS mode on the F3 and ACM when I need to hard lock something within 20km much faster. Ive never had this issue with the SuperTEMPs though (which is in part why I find getting evidence kinda hard as I cant be bothered to touch the Phantoms)
So if you can, send over replays of missiles failing to hit and either myself or someone else can give some better feedback.
It is a tough plane/missile combo to use but it can be done. It requires a very deliberate process and really doesn’t work well if you are the first one into the fight or initial merge.
So - let’s go through the issues you raise in order.
3-6km is a bit too close for one thing - you have virtually no ability to defend or go cold if someone fires back. Sub 10km is good - at least 8-10km for optimum results. This can be up to 15km if you are at higher altitude. This isn’t a missile issue - it’s the fact that a Tornado really does NOT want to get close to a fight. If you are further away you can control the engagement; give yourself more room to evade an unfavourable fight or allow a bit more wriggle-room for notching/cranking.
PD HDN is the way to go on the radar front - although toggling to standard SRC or TWS for targets higher than you where the anti-clutter of the PD isn’t needed. This will help in maintaining a lock if they choose to notch.
I tend to play at mid/high altitude and make sure I’m hanging back for the first team v team merge. I don’t want to get into a multi-missile crapshoot. If AIM-54s are in the air (usually you can see them being lobbed up fairly early on) then I’ll notch or go cold until I’m happy that they aren’t headed my way.
After about a minute I’ll then use the TWS mode to cycle through targets and pick one or two that look like they’re occupied. Even better, if someone is stooging around higher than me I’ll deal with them first - by firing one Skyflash and cranking (keeping them locked but at an extreme gimbal angle on the radar). A second Skyflash about 20s later once they’ve bled energy in evading.
The main advantage of the DFs is that they immediately track off the rail (or virtually immediately) so if you give them even a slight lead in the direction of a target crossing from left to right or visa versa - the missile is already taking the most efficient path to intercept.
You’re never going to be single-handedly wiping out entire teams in an F3. However if you play it in a cagey way, stay fast, keep your targets at range - you can cause quite a bit of chaos as you third-party people who are otherwise engaged in dogfight-missile-thunder.
Well I tried. Every radar mode feels useless, the missile always misses. I’m literally going 10-20 launches with zero hits.
I’ve tried the recommendations, I’ve tried shooting with a bit more distance between me and the target, I’ve even switched to more higher altitude gameplay which only gets me killed faster than at least flying low enough to get near the enemies. Every other plane is AIM-120 or R27-ER and I can’t counter either of them if there’s no terrain in the way in a Tornado.
These missiles are useless for their BR, to the point I doubt i’ll ever even grind them well enough to see the SuperTEMP version. It’s abysmal how much of a pure gamble it is if they will even come close to hitting the opponent. Even if I use one to bleed the opponent’s energy and then attempt a follow-up, it still generally just misses. I end up getting the few kills I can with AIM-9Ls.
The plane feels useless because of just how insanely unreliable the missiles are. it’s like trying to play Harrier GR1 after all the power-creep around its BR.
You should not be firing them at anyone who isn’t within +/- 20 degrees of directly headon and definitively above multipath height, and you should be firing between 3-6km in said headon to try to guarantee they don’t have enough time to notch or get down to multipath.
SuperTEMPs open up your options and especially at altitude allow you to take longer shots but they’re still not particularly long ranged missiles. They’re all strictly headon missiles though. All sparrows and their derivatives are, cuz the seekers are terrible.
in my experience the radar of the tornado is godlike in terms of search/tws mode, with it being faster than some esa radars if I remember right?
ofc when hard lock it’s pretty terrible, considering its stuck with pd hdn.
the skyflash df are pretty mid missiles, I recommend shooting them at top down aspects from around 2 to 7 k,
the supertemps are pretty much the same missile as the DF but with a sustainer, so when u eventually get those, you can fire them from the same min range, but they can hit targets up to 16 km quite reliably
