How does a single 20mm shell sheer off a B-29 wing?

[AverageWehraboo]

@SinisterIsRandom

Doesn’t change the point I was making.

Yes it does.

@SinisterIsRandom

Even then I could talk about the Ki-49, that thing shouldn’t have taken the amount of damage it took and I managed to keep it running somehow.

Not relevant at all I’m talking about the B-29 not some low tier bomber that faces mostly 7mm.

@SinisterIsRandom

However, I’m not gonna say Bombers shouldn’t be reworked, most of them in the game still use the old flight damage model.

Most use a trash damage model.

[AverageWehraboo]

@Exocetta

Yeah, about that…

You think that plane would keep flying?

How this relevant? No information on what gun/round was used.

@Caernarvon02

Planes are built to survive the stresses of flight. not a 2cm lump of metal with some explosives wacking into a vital support spar

Bombers were built to withstand minor damage. Why do you think they had armor and defensive armament? If bombers weren’t survivable at all the mosquito would’ve immediately replaced all allied bombers.

@Axzuel

If it hits a primary structure then maybe. Secondary or tertiary sure, but a 20mm to a primary structure will cause major damage

No chance a single 20mm will do any significant damage to a heavy bomber.

@Caernarvon02

Spitfires were able to shoot down the Luftwaffe with only .303 inch bullets.

It took hundreds of rounds to down a single aircraft. 7mm don’t do shit to a fighter much less a bomber.

@Caernarvon02

a 20mm absolutely shreds airframes, all planes with conventional guns have calibres of 20-30mm because of this punch

Why do you think they had so many cannons on a single plane and eventually increased to 30mm?

@Exocetta

It is the effects of a 30mm Mk. 108 on a Blenheim I believe.

MK108 has 100g of TNT while the 20mm in the video has 11g and the Blenheim is much more fragile than the B-29.

@Exocetta

There is a reason why interceptors designed to destroy bombers quickly went to 20mm+ that could carry explosive fragmentation shells.

There’s a reason many german fighters had 4x 20mm and not just a single one.

@Caernarvon02

Wing spars are not very big at all, any notable damage to one takes all of its ability to bare load, a wing can absolutely rip off from a single bullet

Not true. There’s plenty of gun camera footage of bombers getting their engine ripped apart from behind and you think not a single of those went though the wing spar?

@Caernarvon02

a 2cm bullet would absolutely punch a hole through the spar, its explosive incendiary filler wont do much to a spar but the kinetic energy would still completely shred it in one shot.

The KE of a 20mm is negligible.

@Caernarvon02

I think you’re underestimating it from never seeing or holding 20mm munitions up close

Lay it next to a B-29 and compare the size. A 20mm might look big in your hand but compared to a bomber it’s not.

@Axzuel

And obviously a 20mm HE round would destroy that pretty easily.

It might do that to a fighters wing but certainly not to a bomber.

@Caernarvon02

20mm HE can completley slaughter a win in a single hit from an ideal attack angle

Yes obviously it does ingame but it shouldn’t.

@jaded_sakura77

I can confirm this is the case, B-29 is incredibly fragile. Meanwhile I hit a Me-262 in mixed grb and only get a few visible sparks.

It’s laughable but some fighters can tank tons of damage meanwhile most bombers explode after getting hit once.

@Caernarvon02

the ignition source is the HE-I shell that bloody ruptured it to begin with

The first HE usually opens the fuel tank and the second one sets it on fire but this doesn’t relate to the thread as there clearly was no fire that caused the wing rip.

[Axzuel]

@AverageWehraboo

No chance a single 20mm will do any significant damage to a heavy bomber.

Maybe anywhere else. But a direct hit to primary structure will do major damage.

@AverageWehraboo

It might do that to a fighters wing but certainly not to a bomber.

A direct hit to the wing spar will absolutely do that to a bomber. Wing spars are made from thin sheets of aluminum.

[AverageWehraboo]

@Axzuel

Maybe anywhere else. But a direct hit to primary structure will do major damage.

Depends entirely on the round used. A 20mm doesn’t have the KE or explosive power to do that.

@Axzuel

A direct hit to the wing spar will absolutely do that to a bomber. Wing spars are made from thin sheets of aluminum.

The wing skin is thin sheets of aluminum the wing spars are not.

[Axzuel]

@AverageWehraboo

The wing skin is thin sheets of aluminum the wing spars are not.

They’re sheet metal. They just bend it and add flanges fastened by rivets to make them rigid.

@AverageWehraboo

A 20mm doesn’t have the KE or explosive power to do that

Its not just HE. Its HE fragmentation, big difference. Just like how the German potato masher wasn’t very good at causing lethal damage as opposed to the American pineapple.

[CorruptShadows9]

It feels like bombers are incredibly fragile ingame contrary to IRL

[ZendikarHaven]

@AverageWehraboo

There’s a reason many german fighters had 4x 20mm and not just a single one.

Caernarvon02:

Because WW2 pilots hit ratio was extremely poor? More guns = better chance of hitting, simple.

[ZendikarHaven]

Part of it is that WT players are massively more accurate ingame.

[CorruptShadows9]

Fair point, mouse aim isn’t the same as the stick in the cockpit of those aircraft. Moreso the tail section feels really weak and it falls off so cartoonishly imo. Sure it’s realistic to if it actually got severed but I wish it had just the slightest bit more strenght ingame

[ZendikarHaven]

Can agree, to be honest. Personally I would say fuck realism and buff bombers damage model and AI gunners, and actually balance them for once.

It is what it is though, and until then its still fun to rip them apart with 30mm Minengeschoß…

[CorruptShadows9]

Yeah. Honestly the way ARB is it feels like dedicaged bombers dont have an actual place either.
It would be really nice for Gaijin to artificially buff bombers (and honestly I would vote for it) but until then 20mm stealth belts on F4U-4B go brrrrrr

[berezenboi]

Its not just HE. Its HE fragmentation, big difference. Just like how the German potato masher wasn’t very good at causing lethal damage as opposed to the American pineapple.

Shell fragments beyond the fuse itself have very little penetration, and are there to perforate softer innards, like fuel lines and control cables. So damage to the wing spar would be minimal, unless it’s a direct hit

[Axzuel]

@berezenboi

Shell fragments beyond the fuse itself have very little penetration, and are there to perforate softer innards, like fuel lines and control cables. So damage to the wing spar would be minimal, unless it’s a direct hit

Exactly. It was probably a lucky shot. Things happen.

[berezenboi]

RNGesus was not on his side. I’ve tanked similar shots in my b 29. Blacked out Wing spars and the like. Tail sections are a whole different issue,

[Axzuel]

@berezenboi

Shell fragments beyond the fuse itself have very little penetration, and are there to perforate softer innards, like fuel lines and control cables

Also I know WT doesn’t model this correctly but the SUB-I-II’s HEFI travels at 1100m/s + B-29 heading towards the enemy + HE frag = very high velocity fragmentation cone even if the shell is slowed down by the wing skin.

[berezenboi]

Actually that’s what realshatter did. It made it so fragments inherited velocity from the shell. And it completely broke cannons for a year

[Axzuel]

Well realshatter forgot to add more fragments to HEF shells.

[berezenboi]

And it’s also entirely possible that the sub was using AP, or APDS, given it makes aiming easier, and that would explain getting the wing sheared off

[berezenboi]

Well gaijin just went “ehh make the fragments do more damage” and now we have 20mm cannons one tapping wings regularly

[berezenboi]

Like I should not be tearing wings off with 13mm iai. It’s insane