HE - VT vs TF

Machinery of War Discussion
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Hello everyone!
Today I wanted to discuss the topic of high explosive shells with 2 special-use fuzes:
TF - Time fuze
VT - Variable time, Proximity fuze

now just let me start by saying consider both IRL and In game.

So, who is better?
it is a question as old as time, with both sides presenting very good arguments overall, starting with:

Time Fuze

To say Time fuse is old is an understatement.
The concept of time fuze shells well predates modern combat, and the first “time fuze” was actually made by the Chinese during the 15th century.
Now, to say that those fuzes were the same as modern time fuzes is like saying a plantain is the same as a banana, they might seem alike but are in no way the same, yet one strong side of the time fuze is exemplified:
simplicity.
A major advantage of time fuzes throughout history was their simplicity, they were very easy to produce and fairly fail-proof.
During WW2 time fuze HE shells played a large part in air defiance, with the most notable example being the German Flak 8.8cm cannon.
German crews used Time Fuze shells, together with ballistic tables to set the fuze as close to the allied aero planes as possible, and due to the sheer mass of the 8.8 cm Sprenggranate L/4.5 shell just being close to the target provided enough shrapnel to cause mass amounts of damage.

See example

image

Another noted advantage of the time fuze is its dead-set fuze.
As I will shortly mention in the Proxy fuze section, an issue possible with proxy is fuze failure.
An issue (which was a lot more common with early proxy rounds) was detection failure or premature detonation. sometimes proxy fuzes, due to the way they work, could be set off by the surroundings, or sometimes due to the built in filter mechanics, fail to fuze on certain targets.
A common example (mainly in War Thunder) would be drones.
Drones are not as large as a jet for example, meaning sometimes the fuze will see it as clutter, or will fuze to early to affect it (worth to mention that in modern times it is rare, and more of an issue in war thunder). Time fuze doesn’t suffer from said issue, as it has a dead-locked fuze. no matter what, it will explode after the designated time, for the better and for the worst.

Though it isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. time fuze shells are notoriously hard to aim, as you need to get the exact ballistics, which include many parameters (Altitude, Temperature, velocity, acceleration, so on) and without a ballistic computer, all you can do is guesstimate.

Proxy Fuze

Variable time fuze shells, also known as Proximity shells, shortened as proxy, are a lot more modern.
Variable time stands for the shell’s feature of exploding after a variable time instead of a fixed one (obviously) and has many advantages but also disadvantages.
First advantage is simplicity to hit. In the chaos of a battlefield, you won’t have the time to start adjusting the fuze of your time fuzed shell as a drone as travelling at you at 200km/h carrying enough explosives to turn your crew into a propaganda video, and that is one major advantage of proxy. proxy works in many, many ways, but a common one is by sending a “circle” of radio signals around it, and when one bounces back it calculates the time it took, getting its distance, and if it is within the fuze arming distance it will explode, meaning no special adjustments need to be made.
Considering the size of modern MBT 105-120mm shells, it is needless to say a direct hit is not required, and being in “the general area” of the target is enough to annihilate it in many cases.
Another advantage is no need for a ballistic computer.
While it is indeed nice to have, an experienced crew could use it “blind” with very high effectiveness.
Disadvantages are also a part of proxy fuze. Aside from the earlier mention fuze sensitivity, it is more expensive and complicated to produce and can sometimes (with early proxy round) would explode close to the firing vehicle, though that was quickly fixed.

To summarize both rounds are good, and they have their ups and downs, but it is now up to you - what do you prefer?

  • TF
  • VT
  • Abstain
0 voters

Note: MP shells such as the M830 count as VT

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forgot to add, for the Flak 88 they used the Kommandogerät computer, which was fed the targets variables and gave an aiming guide

See here

image

(Gaijin add this, make the Flakbus good AA)

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TF you are entirely at the mercy of the target doing what you want it to do to get the range right, VT you just aim and fire.

Night and day in terms of shooting down aircraft in naval. I wish they allowed more ships that had VT IRL to actually get it. Like Warspite and Rodney for example

But TF at shorter ranges with a good RoF, like on Ajax seems to work fine though.

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I mean when you look at the 9040 series it is obvious that small caliber VT shells are still extremely effective, i had matches where i got over a dozen air kills with the Lvkv9040C
About ships i have to say, if Gaijin gave more love to Naval it would be such a good gamemode

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Yeah, with smaller calibre, the margin of error is really small, doesnt take much for the ranging to be wrong and the shell to explode too late or too early.

VT is just a matter of getting the round near the target.

Which is why VT were so much more effective IRL

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Who in their right mind uses time fuse against aircraft, well unless it’s your only option

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VT, obviously, just remember to set it to proxy fuze, fire, and boom, SL. With TF, getting a kill without tracking technology is nearly impossible, if you try and set the time by range finding the aircraft, the aircraft will have moved by the time the shell reaches the detonation altitude. You also can’t set a fuze by pointing up, since WT doesn’t let you range find the sky.

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True.
The only part that always interested me is the choice of TF shells on MBTs like the merkava and i think the leclerc? there are a couple more, but as a wise person once said “Nothing is done for no reason”

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Chally 3 TD gets TF as well, apparently its okay for Helis but useless for anything else.

But only since they added the tracking thing for aircraft, so it gives you both the lead and sets the ranging for you, prior to that, no one used it.

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Excluding of course the short while where you could do silly stuff with the Merkava’s TF shell on MBT’s tracks

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TF gang for life! One day Gaijin will make the Flakbus great!

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