Gripen and J10 not pulling any extra AoA?

Machinery of War Discussion
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Firstly, this is relevant to both the live and dev server. Although the dev server implemented the new option to disable the AoA limit with instructor, full controls on the live server serve the same function, but it’s harder to use.

So… From my testing, every jet that received the AoA feature works as intended, like “eazy mode full controls”, I tested all of them.

But contrary to the rest, I can’t pull any extra pitch up AoA with Gripen and the J10, regardless of speed, and regardless if I’m using full controls or the new button. I was already aware of that since their introduction.

Using full controls can make the initial turning input more snappy, and you can induce stall maneuvers with rudder inputs into the mix, while also allowing far more pitch down input on the canards.

But I’m talking about the normal pitch up turning, for example, at max instructor turning (after you get as slow as possible), enabling the extra AoA/full controls on the other jets, will make them pull even more and get even slower. This isn’t happening on the Gripen/J10.

For reference, the gripen (min fuel no load) at 375kph IAS (tightest instructor turn) in a horizontal turn will be hovering between 23-24deg of Angle of Attack, circling the AoA button or full controls won’t turn any tighter, which means it isn’t pull any extra AoA and will after a second stabilize in the same 23-24deg AoA. All the other jets will immediately pull more AoA.

I am not talking about instantaneous turn rate or sustained turn rate.
I am not talking about the initial snappy turn that will pull some more AoA but stabilize again.
I am not talking about the issue that makes the canards twitch at low speed and causing a ±1deg AoA for some reason which happens in every canard plane.
I am not talking about “I feel like it pulls more”, that’s probably because the camera changes with full controls
I am not talking about using trim controls at high speeds to make the aircraft pull insane Gs (a bit more AoA as a result too)
I am not talking about using rudder inputs at the same time to make the aircraft flat spin and pull 90deg AoA

I am measuring with WTRTI, but you don’t really need it to test this, since you can just look at your canards to see if they are pitching any extra angle when circling full controls at slow speeds.

I also played with the SAS damper settings and increased pitch sensitivity on full controls but that isn’t it.

I’m trying to be as detailed as possible because some people on the dev were calling me an idiot/lier for saying that the gripen wasn’t pulling any extra AoA. Some content creator also told me that from his and other creators testing, the gripen did indeed pull more.

So are all those people wrong or is my game/controls broken somehow?

If you don’t have the dev server, just use full controls on live to help me test it.

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well, without the AoA limiter the JAS39 should reasonably be able to do this:

(The Maneuver limiter failed during an airshow while the Gripen was still being tested and built)

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Urm, hey, u might wanna read the post made by devs again, they didn’t have this feature and are consequently not changed.

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Random thought since last conversation.

In WTRTI, have the game display critical AOA% rather than just AoA degrees.

The reason why Full-real and instructor differ in turn rate a lot of times is because instructor is far more conservative with critical AoA to prevent wingstalls and consequent spins.

If the J10 has the same critical AOA% in both full-real (damping off), Full-real (damping on), instructor modes then it might just be a quirk of the flight model’s stability.

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Did they say this about Gripen? where?

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Sure will, but I can’t pull any extra AoA /instantaneous turn on full controls at slow speeds regardless.

Edit. I just did that, but the critical AoA is just a percentage, it doesn’t change regardless. And nose angle doesn’t register any data.

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Oops nvm. But I am pretty sure Gripen and J10 aren’t designed to have them turned off.

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Thats not what this discussion is about, the F-16 wasn’t designed to have them off either and it can in warthunder

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Both of them can do that only with pitch down (lol) under certain conditions

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Gripen sort of is.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/M2Yy4K0KQFVY

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Same with basically every in every fighter in gen 4. Issue is that these canards are not very stable with high AoA, the drag is high enough to instantly destroy your speed.

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Ok sure, but please I made this topic for a very specific question

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In WT, pretty much every plane can be attempted to be flown “raw” without any stability assist or fly-by-wire with the current implementation.

Whether it’s a good idea is another question (sweet wobble-oscillation of death in the f117 with damping off).

What I meant was, “is it possible that the instructor is giving the maximum critical angle of attack the raw flight model can provide in terms of elevator/canard authority without actually limiting it below the flight model’s maximum performance as it remains stable without stall-risk?”

If I make sense there?

It’s been a while I watched this video, but apparently gaijin kinda… does some broad strokes approximations to flight models for sake of the instructor that may have weird consequences.

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Yes of course, thats what I assumed too.

But my issue is… why the hell was everybody telling me it indeed pulled more AoA with the limit off? Now I am wondering what is what… I mean I clearly can’t do it, but Its hard to believe that all of them, one of which was a good player also using WTRTI, and including the content creator comments that said it was possible, being all lies.

The flankers, the F-15, F-18, mig29, rafale, ef2000 all work well with the new feature. And some others without it also work well on full controls, like the m2k. And by working well I mean that they indeed can pull more AoA, even on the live server, but you need full controls naturally.

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As I expected, the new AoA button doesn’t work properly on the Gripen or the J-10A.