That’s quite the strawman, no-one is asking for that kind of “balance”. All I’m advocating for is that, in a competitive game, both teams (And the vehicles on both teams) have a roughly even chance of winnning the game. That neither team has advantages that cannot be meaningfully countered and/or played around. That is a fundemental part of a competitive video game.
And it is a competitive game. In all of the major gamemodes, there is a winning team (Who get much better rewards) and a losing team. Winning is highly incentivised. Yes, the PvE Assault gamemodes exist, but are so vestigal I’m willing to bet a lot of newer players don’t even realize they exist.
To be clear, I’m not asking for something that’s completely inaccurate. If I were aiming for complete accuracy, I’d advocate for the VEAK to be entirely removed from the game, since it never actually entered any operational service with anyone. If we’re going to take the step to include a vehicle that was cancelled and never entered service, is it really going too far to include ammunition that it absolutely would have fired later in life had it entered service?
Gaijin gave it the ammo and let it play for what, 5 years? I wasnt playing this then, but Im willing to bet that during testing it didnt have the HEVT ammo and more than a few complained about how useless it was.
When Gaijin took the HEVT ammo off of the veak, they claimed the usual “its not historical” BS. But the very info that told them that the veak never fired the HEVT round also told them what ammo it did use. Funny how that same “historical” excuse didnt encourage them to add its correct high velocity ammo, which could have made it more useful at its current BR.
But also at the same time the HV shells would have made it a better version of the ZSU, against tanks…
Its amazing to watch how Gaijin’s devs keep hopping the fence of historical v balance, and come up with lame excuse after lame excuse to justify it.
If it wasnt so frustrating it would be extremely funny.
There is another thread where this behavior was brung up over the Swiss Hornets. Swiss hornets loadouts - #49 by railgunDE112
The community manager here pulled a very funny back and forth bs saying
“As long as a weapon is technically compatible with the aircraft (that is, the functionality was not removed), then its open to consideration.”
then a few posts later coming up with an excuse against it
“Just because it is compatable, that does not mean its under automatic consideration to add.”
As the Veak is now, it definitely needs to drop to 7.0, all the tank is right now is a radar vehicle.
If it had its correct ammo maybe 7.3. If it had the HEVT shells move it back up to 8.3.
To my knowledge there are only a few cases of this. Most of the time it’s because they technically can fire them and are given those rounds for balance (you’re free to agree or disagree with both that way of operating and if it makes a specific vehicle balanced or not). The Veak40 never had the ability to fire proximity rounds as those were invented after the decommission of the vehicle. As far as i know there are no vehicles in the game that fires a round/munition that was invented after the decommission of the vehicle.
The VEAK is entirely capable of firing those rounds. Any vehicle equipped with the Bofors 40mm L/70 can. There’s absolutely no modifications nessesary to do so.
If the VEAK had actually entered service (Which it was much closer to doing than the vast majority of other prototypes in the game), it obviously would have been given access to HEVT rounds just a few years later when they entered production. And based on the sources I’ve seen and some basic inference, it was always planned to receive them, as HEVT was in development concurrently with the VEAK.
We already have other prototype vehicles using rounds that were only produced long after the project was cancelled. Off the top of my head, the T-34-100 shouldn’t have BR-412D, and probably shouldn’t have BR-412B (Though the date of introduction of the B shell is trickier to pin down).
The veak can technically fire the 40mm HEVT rounds, and if it had entered service there would have been no reason not to load it with those rounds.
And as I pointed out earlier in this post, the information for the veak is old and hasnt changed in decades. Why was the veak ever given the HEVT ammo if it never had it in the first place? Gaijin knew it never used the ammo right from the beginning.
If it wasnt so frustrating watching yall bounce all over the “not historical - its for balance” excuse it would be extremely funny.
There is a secondary source I found which lists the HEF shell having a radio fuse with a 4.8 meter trigger radius. Presumably, this is what they originally used.
I’ve since lost the source, and can’t be bothered tracking it down again, but IIRC, the source is a US govermental translation of a publication from the Soviet Union on foreign SPAA systems.
Interestingly, it was originally released several years before 40mm HEVT was released publically. So either the Soviet authors managed to predict a round that didn’t exist at the time, but shortly would, or they’d found evidence that the VEAK was being tested with HEVT rounds which we know from other sources were being tested concurrently.
That’s the one. Note that the report came out in 1971 (And translated in 1972), meanwhile HEVT shells were only entered production in 1975 according to other sourcess.
While the shells probably weren’t in full production, they were probably producing them in smaller quantities for testing purposes at that time.
Someone didnt just draw the shell on paper and then go straight into full production.
Yes. But the source indicates that the VEAK was likely in testing with the HEVT shells and/or was intended on recieving them when it/they entered service.
AKA the exact justification for the Yak-141 getting everything that it has.
Its funny that this is where these type of conversations go in regards to Gaijin making changes to vehicles. Somehow they get so much wrong with every other nation but rarely make changes to Russia.
After doing some reading around in some of the other topics, and even going back to the old forum, regarding the Veak and its ammo, It seems that a few of the 40mm shells had the ability to interchange fuses. And the VT fuse, was just a fuse made to fit and already existing shell.
Back in the old forum, there was a bit of disagreement over some of the translation of the attached document. But basically, It was either a timed fuse, or a high sensitivity contact fuse that is shown on one of the pages. While neither would be as good as the VT shell, either would be better than what the tank currently gets.
True anything with Object in the name > Bye, any thing with XM & VK designation > bye.
People, why is my TT so empty and full of holes?
still not sure why they removed it, but when it had HE-VT it was one of the best canon SPAAG i used ;P
Mine sits in GFAB at a very nice 4.4 : 1 K/D, rarely used it after the change, since i was shooting stuff with the equally good ASRAD-R.
We do not generally base vehicle or weapon additions on arguments like “but a similar gun on a ship fired it, so technically…” — that’s not how implementation works. We only consider rounds that were either definitely fired by the platform in question or at the very least tested with it.
If the VEAK 40 had fired HE-VT, it would be eligible to receive it. But as of now, there is no evidence to support that.
Current confirmed ammunition for the VEAK 40 includes:
An APDS — ~1200 m/s; ~120 mm penetration against flat armor at 100 m
An HE-I — ~1005 m/s (comparable to Leopard 40/70 and AMX-13 DCA 40)
An AP-T — ~1005 m/s (also comparable to Leopard 40/70 and AMX-13 DCA 40)
(For context I’m aware as are many that the current in-game ammunition for the Lvakan m/48 is incorrect and that the above amunition types arent in-game)
Correction:
The Swedish Navy was testing the HE-VT at the time the VEAK 40 was at the end of its project. the Army did not, and there is no documentation showing the VEAK 40 was ever tested with it.
Until evidence surfaces confirming the VEAK 40 fired HE-VT, it will not receive the shell.
This is the final word on the matter unless new proof emerges.
