German F-4F Historical Improvements: AIM-9L Compatibility, and Countermeasures for the Early (PART 3)

๐ˆ๐ง๐ญ๐ซ๐จ๐๐ฎ๐œ๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง

The German F-4F Phantom II is an important aircraft in the history of the Luftwaffe, serving from the 1970s until the introduction of the F-4F ICE modernization programme.

In War Thunder, Germany currently operates two Cold War F-4F variants:

  • F-4F Early (BR 10.7)
  • F-4F (BR 11.0)

While both aircraft are generally represented well, several historically documented capabilities and equipment options are currently missing or inaccurately represented.

This suggestion focuses primarily on improving historical accuracy. Any Battle Rating recommendations are discussed separately at the end and are intended as gameplay balance considerations rather than historical claims.

The main proposed historical additions are:

  • Add AIM-9L Sidewinder compatibility to the standard F-4F.
  • Add historically accurate countermeasure capability for the F-4F Early.
  • Add the missing outer wing fuel tanks as an available external store option.

Screenshot 2026-07-16 164840

๐‡๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐จ๐ซ๐ข๐œ๐š๐ฅ ๐๐š๐œ๐ค๐ ๐ซ๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐ ๐จ๐Ÿ ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐…-๐Ÿ’๐… ๐๐ก๐š๐ง๐ญ๐จ๐ฆ ๐ˆ๐ˆ

The F-4F Phantom II was developed specifically for the West German Luftwaffe as a simplified version of the F-4E. Between 1971 and 1976, West Germany received a total of 263 F-4F aircraft.

Compared with the F-4E, the F-4F featured several modifications:

  • Simplified AN/APQ-120 radar equipment.
  • Removal of AIM-7 Sparrow capability at delivery.
  • Reduced air-to-ground capability.
  • Reduced weight compared with the F-4E.

When initially introduced into service, the F-4F relied primarily on the AIM-9B Sidewinder for air-to-air combat. However, this changed significantly following the introduction of the Peace Rhine modernization programme, which upgraded the aircraftโ€™s combat capabilities during the Cold War.

Classix | Phantom und General (1971) | Bundeswehr

Classix: Kampfflugzeug Phantom - ein hรคsslicher Vogel? - Bundeswehr (1972)

๐๐ž๐š๐œ๐ž ๐‘๐ก๐ข๐ง๐ž ๐Œ๐จ๐๐ž๐ซ๐ง๐ข๐ณ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐๐ซ๐จ๐ ๐ซ๐š๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ž (๐Ÿ๐Ÿ—๐Ÿ–๐ŸŽโ€“๐Ÿ๐Ÿ—๐Ÿ–๐Ÿ‘)

Beginning in 1980, the Luftwaffe started upgrading its F-4F fleet under the Peace Rhine modernisation programme.

This upgrade introduced several important improvements, including:

  • Improved avionics.
  • Digital weapons computer.
  • Improved electronic warfare equipment.
  • AIM-9L Sidewinder compatibility.
  • AGM-65 Maverick compatibility.
  • Air-to-air refuelling capability.
  • Hardware modifications for AIM-7 Sparrow compatibility.

Although the aircraft received technical modifications allowing AIM-7 Sparrow compatibility, political restrictions prevented operational use of the missile before German reunification. The AIM-9L Sidewinder, however, became the most significant air-to-air improvement and represented a major increase in capability compared with earlier AIM-9 variants.

๐€๐๐๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐จ๐Ÿ ๐€๐ˆ๐Œ-๐Ÿ—๐‹ ๐’๐ข๐๐ž๐ฐ๐ข๐ง๐๐ž๐ซ ๐‚๐š๐ฉ๐š๐›๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ

Current In-Game Situation

The German F-4F currently uses the AIM-9J Sidewinder as its highest-tier air-to-air missile.
However, the later Cold War F-4F configuration represented in War Thunder should reflect the improvements introduced through the Peace Rhine modernization programme, including AIM-9L compatibility.

Historically Correct Configuration

Following the Peace Rhine upgrade, Luftwaffe F-4Fs were capable of carrying the AIM-9L Sidewinder.

The AIM-9L introduced several major improvements compared with earlier AIM-9 variants:

  • All-aspect seeker capability.
  • Improved infrared sensitivity.
  • Increased off-boresight engagement capability.
  • Improved tracking performance.

This represented a significant improvement over the earlier AIM-9B and AIM-9J missiles and gave the F-4F a much greater air-to-air combat capability during the late Cold War.

My supporting sources include:

  • Luftwaffe F-4F Peace Rhine modernization documentation.
  • Aviation reference works covering Luftwaffe Phantom upgrades.
  • Photographs of Luftwaffe F-4Fs equipped with AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles.

Screenshot 2026-07-16 165740
A Luftwaffe F-4F Phantom following the Peace Rhine modernization programme, equipped with AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles and demonstrating the aircraftโ€™s upgraded late Cold War air-to-air capability.

๐‚๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐ญ๐ž๐ซ๐ฆ๐ž๐š๐ฌ๐ฎ๐ซ๐ž ๐‚๐š๐ฉ๐š๐›๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ

Current In-Game Situation

The F-4F Early currently lacks countermeasure. This creates a significant difference compared with later Cold War Phantom configurations, which received improved defensive systems as part of ongoing modernization efforts.

Historical Background

Electronic warfare improvements became an important part of Phantom upgrades throughout the 1970s and 1980s.

The Peace Rhine programme included improvements to the F-4Fโ€™s electronic warfare capability, improving the aircraftโ€™s survivability against increasingly advanced radar-guided threats. The exact introduction date and configuration of chaff and flare dispensers on early Luftwaffe F-4F aircraft requires further confirmation through primary documentation.

๐€๐๐๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐จ๐Ÿ ๐Ž๐ฎ๐ญ๐ž๐ซ ๐–๐ข๐ง๐  ๐…๐ฎ๐ž๐ฅ ๐“๐š๐ง๐ค๐ฌ (๐“๐ก๐ข๐ซ๐ T๐ข๐ฆ๐ž!)

The German F-4Fs currently lacks the option to equip outer wing fuel tanks.

This limits the available historical external loadout options of the aircraft.

Historical Configuration

The F-4 Phantom family was designed with multiple external fuel tank configurations, and the F-4F retained the ability to carry:

  • Centreline fuel tank.
  • Outer wing fuel tanks.

๐’๐ฎ๐ ๐ ๐ž๐ฌ๐ญ๐ž๐ ๐‚๐ก๐š๐ง๐ ๐ž๐ฌ

Based on the historical evidence above, the following additions are recommended:

F-4F Early

Historical improvements:

  • Add historically appropriate countermeasure capability if confirmed through Luftwaffe documentation.
  • Add outer wing fuel tank option.

F-4F

Historical improvements:

  • Add AIM-9L Sidewinder capability.
  • Add outer wing fuel tank option.

๐‚๐จ๐ง๐œ๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง

The German F-4F Phantom II was continuously modernised throughout its service life. While the aircraft entered service as a simplified Phantom variant, programmes such as Peace Rhine significantly improved its combat capability and allowed it to remain an effective frontline fighter throughout the late Cold War.

Adding historically documented equipment such as, AIM-9L Sidewinders, defensive countermeasure systems to the Early, and outer wing fuel tanks would improve the historical accuracy for the German Phantom line while creating a clearer distinction between early and late Cold War configurations.

The F-4F Early would become a more viable aircraft with the addition of countermeasures, allowing it to better survive against modern threats at higher Battle Ratings. The standard F-4F, equipped with AIM-9Ls, would become a more competitive and interesting aircraft while better matching the capabilities of other Phantoms at a similar Battle Rating.

A possible balance adjustment would be moving the F-4F Early to BR 11.0 or stay at 10.7 after receiving countermeasures, while moving the standard F-4F to BR 11.3 after receiving AIM-9Ls. The AIM-9L would help compensate for the aircraftโ€™s lack of radar-guided missiles and provide a more balanced counterpart to other aircraft at that Battle Rating.

Currently, the F-4F has limited appeal outside of researching modifications for use in Ground RB. Introducing these historically accurate upgrades would give players a genuine reason to use the aircraft in Air RB while also better representing the Luftwaffeโ€™s late Cold War Phantom fleet.

๐ƒ๐จ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ ๐ญ๐ก๐ข๐ง๐ค ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐†๐ž๐ซ๐ฆ๐š๐ง ๐…-๐Ÿ’๐… ๐๐ก๐š๐ง๐ญ๐จ๐ฆ๐ฌ ๐ฌ๐ก๐จ๐ฎ๐ฅ๐ ๐ซ๐ž๐œ๐ž๐ข๐ฏ๐ž ๐ญ๐ก๐ž๐ฌ๐ž ๐ก๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐จ๐ซ๐ข๐œ๐š๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ซ๐จ๐ฏ๐ž๐ฆ๐ž๐ง๐ญ๐ฌ?
  • Yes! These changes would improve historical accuracy and gameplay balance.
  • No. The F-4F is fine and does not require these changes.
0 voters

If youโ€™re also frustrated by this, donโ€™t forget to like and share, as it will help bring attention to these forgotten aircraft that desperately need to be revised!

2 Likes

This guy might like f4 phantoms

+1

1 Like

Iโ€™ll be covering the F-104s next

2 Likes

tbh, give the early flares and keep the f4f as it is, maybe some changes could be made to the early so it becomes different, and then add a f4f late or smth like that with 9Ls and folder it with the regular f4f, just so there is a lower br f4f, knowing gaijin and what they did with the kum 2000 the f4f with 9Ls would be at least 12.0

Unfortunately, an F-4F Late wouldnโ€™t be much different from the one we already have in the game. It would essentially be a copy paste addition, and itโ€™d likely receive backlash for that.

yes please, would actually make me want to grind the normal one

The F-4F didnโ€™t receive countermeasures until the Peace Rhine upgrade. Also, AIM-9Js are just as ahistorical on the โ€œEarlyโ€ as the โ€œLateโ€

The fixes are pretty simple-

  • Remove AIM-9J/E from F-4F โ€œEarlyโ€, move to 10.0. itโ€™ll be essentially an F-4C that trades Sparrow capability for slats and an internal gun. Also, rename to โ€œF-4Fโ€. If weโ€™re really reaching, it should always have been tech tree and not an event vehicle.
  • Remove AIM-9J from F-4F. Add AIM-9L, move to 11.7. Rename to โ€œF-4F Peace Rhineโ€. 11.3 is too low for AIM-9L on a Phantom where it will still frequently face aircraft with only rear-aspect missiles and even a few without countermeasures! Compare to the Kurnass 2000 which should be 12.0, the F-4F Peace Rhine fits cleanly at 11.7.
  • F-4F KWS-LA with AIM-9L(I)-1 at 12.3. No BVR but four IRCCM, though without the smokeless motor of the 9M theyโ€™re not as difficult to avoid.

Youโ€™re seriously overcomplicating the issue with these forgotten aircraft. Even though the AIM-9Js arenโ€™t entirely historically accurate, they were added for balance reasons.

Improving these already existing aircraft avoids unnecessary copy paste additions like the unoriginal F-4F KWS-LA that you mentioned. Thereโ€™s also no reason for the F-4F to sit at 11.7 when it only carries four AIM-9Ls.

Youโ€™ve approached these discussions with very emotionally driven arguments, and your approach to balancing sounds a lot like the way Gaijin developers tend to think, sticking rigidly to one line of reasoning instead of looking at the bigger picture. Try thinking outside the box here. The AIM-9L isnโ€™t some unstoppable super weapon. 1st quartile behavior.

1 Like

Whole point of the early is that it gets no CM (and some other small differences) in exchange for a lower br

Enjoy the new battle rating of 11.7 if you add AIM-9Ls to the F-4F, which will make it useless.

Oh, so just make them the exact same aircraft with no changes except one is a higher BR?

1 Like

Itโ€™s a lighter, cheaper Phantom equipped with the Agile Eagle package, and it was actually a solid aircraft when it was first introduced. However, with the addition of so many modern all-aspect missiles, avoiding them has become increasingly difficult. Youโ€™d know that if youโ€™ve played the F-4F Early recently.

You rarely see anyone flying it anymore, whether theyโ€™re on your team or the enemyโ€™s, because itโ€™s become so frustrating to use in the current meta. Adding countermeasures wouldnโ€™t be some controversial buff, itโ€™s simply a quality-of-life improvement. Every German Phantom received countermeasures shortly after entering service, so giving them to the F-4F Early wouldnโ€™t be some F-16AJ problem.

but you said

The F-4F would be more balanced, more realistic, and fill a more significant BR hole if it had no AIM-9J and was 10.0.
The F-4F Peace Rhine with AIM-9L would have no need for AIM-9J.
So why do we need it?

How is this copy-paste? Itโ€™s a distinct and historically significant aircraft, the stepping stone to the KWS-LV, and itโ€™s likely to be found at a BR where Germany has no fighters. Itโ€™s only copy-paste in the sense that itโ€™s not a new aircraft family, but thatโ€™s an extremely extreme bar for what constitutes copy-paste.

Would you mind elaborating on this comment? What exactly are you perceiving as an emotional argument? I think Iโ€™ve been quite rational- defending my arguments with logical comparisons to similar aircraft.

Ad hominem?

Falsely claiming that Iโ€™m just asking Gaijin to buff the aircraft I like, and calling me a liar in the process, is confrontational, which is why I responded with an ad hominem.

The suggestions Iโ€™ve made are about improving the aircraft by moving forward rather than taking a step backward. A Phantom at 10.0 with only slightly improved AIM-9Bs would be a pretty underwhelming , and I donโ€™t think many people would enjoy playing it, especially those at 9.0 who would have to face it.

Given the backlash WarThunder has received recently, I think most players would rather see something genuinely new than another Phantom that, on paper, doesnโ€™t offer anything particularly exciting. It might be interesting to Phantom enthusiasts like us, and Iโ€™m guessing youโ€™re a fan too, but for everyone else, itโ€™s just another aircraft standing between them and top tier. Thatโ€™s likely to generate more complaints than excitement.

I have a feeling weโ€™re not going to agree on this. From what Iโ€™ve seen so far, you seem like the type whoโ€™d rather remove something for the sake of balance, even if it was originally added to balance that vehicle in the first place like an AIM-9J. Iโ€™m pretty much the complete opposite. One more thing, the reason for the two AIM 9Ls for the F-4J is because the stock grind is terrible, and thatโ€™s not hard to understand.

The Swedish AJS 37 has a better FM and radar with 9Ls and is only 11.0 just like how the phantom is now. The F-4F would do fine with 9Ls at 11.0

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11.3 would be more reasonable for the F-4F with AIM-9Ls because the AJS 37 has to equip both the gun pod and countermeasures, which costs it two missiles. Unfortunately, it also canโ€™t carry AIM-9Ls on the outer pylons because theyโ€™re too heavy, which is pretty annoying.