Also U.S, Japan, and if you’re lucky Sweden. Either way I didn’t call Germany wallet warriors so idk why you’re implying that.
Ehh? I mean, maybe as an anti-ship aircraft at best. IIRC Kormorans still can’t target ground targets(?).
Oh btw, waaa muh US suffers I can’t kill Leopard 2s waaa muh skill issue waaaah.
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Damn… Germany doesn’t need CAS sad. They are fine with tanks? I guess Germany would be fine with KF-51 or something.
its more the issue that if he suffers against germany then why should he suffer more with cas like that’s gonna make a difference since its very likely he is gonna be fighting another nation with cas anyways
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So basically we give him good cas and in exchange we get better tanks. Okay.
Or just nerf Sweden’s CAS.
as long as there is no diverse lineup for him that’s good since well it needs to stay as it is since he dosent want to deal with something new anymore
guess sweden doesnt exist
He is a troll and not a very smart one at that, just ignore him to avoid coming back to a ton of random replies on the same old thread
What I don’t get are the BRs for CAS in Ground RB.
Lets start with the important 10.3 BR step->Leopard 2A4 and other key Ger ground units (I include also the 10.0 ones in my 10.3 lineup).
We have the F-4F late and the Su-22M4. F-4F has two Mavericks (TV) and the Su-22 has two Kh-29T (TV guided), which are easy to use in GRB. The Suchoi might switch to a setup with 4x laser guided missiles, which also works well at this BR. Anti-Air units are not that nasty at 10.3 (no Pantsirs).
This is apparently 10.3 worthy for Gajin. Four (!) laser guided missiles and six (!) all aspect R-60MK. Very powerful. Applies also for the setup with 2x Fire and Forget KH-29T and 6x R60MK.
Then we’ve got the Star Fighter at 10.0 BR. The WASD Saclos guided Nord Aviation AS.30 or AS.20 are ok as standoff option, but definetly not as useful as Mavericks or guided KH’s just one BR tick higher with alot ground stuff to support the linup. A flying brick with hard to use WASD guided AGMs is just meh at this BR. These Nord Aviation AS-20 etc are a 8.7 weapons… The Starfighter is a meh platform with no maneuverability, so lower its Ground BR… Also mind the Swiss Hunter with 2x Mavericks at 9.7… Starfighter needs to move down.
Next would be the Tornados. Tornado MFG and WTD61 have no guided ordnance for GRB. They just drop 1000lb bombs. No rocket pods. No AGMs. No dumb fire missiles like Tiny Ivans. Not even bigger bombs like the F-4F 2000 or 3000lb ones, which are usefull to clear caps.
This is the relevant CAS setup of the two weaker Tornados. Just 2 all aspect IR missiles and dull 1000lb bombs. How is this 10.3 BRed as well? This is just poor. 10.3? Compare this to the F-4F or Su-22. Also mind how likely it is to successfully use dumb bombs at this BR… Any AA system will blast your unmaneuverable bus out of the sky. Strelas, proxy HE guns, SAM units … how can a CAS plane without any standoff capability be at this BR? You need to literally fly above your target to release the bomb. Jesus, how is this supposed to work? The BR needs to be dropped dramatically for GRB. Also just two IR missiles :(
Tornado ASSTA got a BR of 11.3. Just one step below max BR. It got just 4x GBU 16. There’s also no TT ground unit at this BR. So whats the point of the GRB BR of 11.3 for this Nado, when there’s no vehicle to play? Whose ideea was that, thats the pinnacle of pointlessness? Also, by no means 4 laser guided bombs make this thing max BR worthy. Other jets have tons of Mavericks or long range laser guided missiles at lower BRs. It would be perfect at 10.3…but 11.3? No sir, thats the realm of F-16, Su-25 and other airplanes with top standoff options.
The “new” F-4F ICE. For GRB purposes its very close to the F-4F late. Both have two Mavericks. The ICE the better Mav with thermal seeker, as well as more sophisticated AA loadout. Thats an upgrade, but I doubt it makes it 11.7 worthy for GRB. I expected it to be good vs other CAS with its AIM120. But quickly found out that GRB maps are too small for this. You’re almost always in Pantsir range and as soon as you line up / climb up to use AIM120, you eat Pantir missiles. Its useless in that role. Even if its the most modern German plane, it still won’t trigger any missile alert or RWR alert when Pantsir picks you up.
BOth Mig-29’s… The A is at 12.0 and the G at 12.3 for Ground RB. Must be a bug. How can two jets without noteworthy CAS capability be that high BRed? GRB max BR is still 11.7. So yeah. Or did I get something wrong here?
G.91 and the Alpha Jet. G.91…very nice with 4x Nord Aviation AS-20. Good amount of ammo. Good FM for ground strikes, BRed at 8.7.
Alpha Jet. Worse gun, less guns, less ammo. No Saclos AGMs. Just small bombs and rocket pods. However…its with CCIP, so thats a bonus. Imho G.91 and Alpha Jet should be both 8.7. Don’t get why Alpha got a higher BR in GRB.
I don’t really know what to think about the Mig-23BN. It has no guided ordnance, no AAMs, no CMs. Unlike Tornados it has a very nice flight model, means you can use the bombs very well. Its no problem to quickly react on ground targets you spotted and to do precision drops/shots. Its best loadout are S-24 or FAB500 bombs. With CMs it would be ok. But without CMs you have little chance vs. Strela and similar AA units. So should be lowered to get it out of the Strela death zone BR bracket.
Another point. Back to the 3 Tornados. Its a ground thread…but still. Why is the ASSTA Tornado 11.7 in Air RB, while the MFG + WTD61 are 11.3? The only difference are the target pod and the GBU-16. For Air RB that absolutly doesn’t matter. For Air RB purposes all three jets are totally identical.
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I’ve already talked extensively on Sweden lol.
Just curious what CAS options Germany could have in top tier? F/A18 from Swiss?
Yes… Maybe… Not sure what A2G Swiss F-18 had. Though Gaijin might take pitty on Germany and give them the standard A2G loadout of an F-18.
After that it is the Tornado ASSTA3.1, some upgrades but not a huge buff in terms of loadouts though unlike Italy and Britain’s “late” tornados.
Then it’s typhoon…but probably not the first round of Typhoons, probably the second will have good A2G.
Nothing.
Switzerland did not integrate any A2G armament into their F-18s.
That is what I thought. But you never know… Maybe gaijin will pull one of their “Its an F-18, therefore it can equip the same A2G as any other F-18” decisions so that Germany has something more,
like with the f4f reasoning,
they get aim 9js because the german pilots used them in the US
the swiss pilots apparently where fully trained in the CAS for the F/A 28 as well
Yep, essentially. Or like how Italy never purchased Skyflash SuperTEMPS (and maybe didnt use BOL either? That is a gunjob question) but the Tornado ADV has both.
Yep, you don’t need CAS, just use an air to air plane like the mig29G as anti air, since the FlakRakRad is absolute garbage. Or alternatively, use the f4f ICE and do a bit of CAS with anti air built in with the fox 3’s
Doubt it. Gajin wont even give Maverick triple mounts to German Phantoms and any good ordnance to the Tornados. Ger seemingly just gets what it really used and not an inch more.
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It most likely has both in order to avoid having them at different BR’s for air. Likely when the F18’s roll out the Swiss F18 will either get the Finnish MLU 2 ordinance or be given the base F18 payload. Regardless i hope if gaijin models CAS avionic weight that they also remember to add it to the Swiss so we dont have yet another semi fictional jet in terms of flight performance cough cough F16AJ weighing like 1000kg less than any other f16 (probably because its not real)
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