Real Shatter 1.0 was a golden era of Fw 190 F8 gameplay, haha, I feel so dirty now.
It’s the same people in this thread.
Pretty sure Kiwi has advocated for lower damage since the beginning of time.
He did not advocate for ridiculously low damage like during RS 1.0.
Also, at least he’s been consistent and logical. Unlike you and your “well, we want kinda realistic flight models and magical fantasy blaster cannons”.
Yeah, makes sense.
BTW, IRL it took on average about 4 M-geschoss hits to down a fighter. And that was basically what was happening in game.
Some guns were just too weak, even if we adjusted them in a realistic fashion (while Shvak or Ho-5 should be weaker in structural damage, the average number of shells to kill shouldn’t exceed 8, while for Ho-5 for a long time it was well above 10).
But we can’t have that, since “competitive br0s” have moved the goalposts.
Before it was: heeey, MG151/20 is too powerfull, other cannons do nothing (in some cases, it was true).
Now comp-br0s have 20mm 1-shotting everything and anything less than that = instant “oh my god, I can’t be cumpetitive, my gunz do no damage, if they don’t 1-shot, how can Gaij00b balance the game!!!”.
Well, let me remind you, Tempest V is same BR as Yak-3U and it’s been like that for several years.
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That’s true 😌
But I‘m also for fixing every other shell that isn’t explosive, since since the dawn of time Gaijin only seemed to focus on them.
Also I‘m more against planes having their wings and tails getting blasted off by 12.7mm and 20mm explosive shells that bring less explosive into the target than a single 20mm Mineshell.
Bombers should be freaking tanky and brining them down should require some serious firepower and a big focus on incendiary ammunition.
There was a time when taking 3xMK 108s on a Bf 109 was a viable option to bring down B-17s, instead of a Bf 109 with a single MG 151/20 ripping the tail of a B-17 with no effort.
At the same time I also don’t want bombers to get sprayed from 1km by .50cals and get set on fire but I already made a report that might significantly reduce their effective range.
Unfortunately Gaijin has done nothing to address the performance differences of incendiary ammunition.
20mm and 30mm Incendiary does nothing but give players a worse default belt option.
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Good thing you reminded me about 12.7 - yesterday poor guy in I-185 was trying to stall fight my G55 S0, I fired a burst from 950m away, I was covering quite a wide arc, so at best he got hit by 4 bullets, snap goes the tail, because I landed 2-4 Breda HE bullets. Same would happen if he got hit by MG131s. Same would happen if he got hit by two (yes, 2) Berezin bullets.
Generally, it’s ridiculous to me that we’re at the point where ANY reasonable person would arm their plane with 3-4 nose mounted Berezins with 100% HE belts, as it’s literally the best range vs hitting power combo that is either superior or equal to every other A2A weapons we have in game as it’s perfectly capable of 1-clicking any WW2 fighter out of the sky, and if somehow dispersion prevents it - cripple it behond any further dogfighting ability
And surprisingly, Soviets never attempted it and instead created La-9, Yak-9UT, 3-cannon armed La-7 etc.
Wonder me wonder why…
Now Imagine F2G with pure HE belts. It would get to 6.7 within a week via forcing and winning head-ons vs everything, haha.
Edit: I have written about 4 M-geschoss hits per fighter shot down, but now I’m kinda dubious. Do you by any chance know if this claim is legit?
No, but based on that a 30mm Mineshell will most likely do it, it’s pretty likely.
4 hits deal around the same structural damage but also have the chance to hit fuel tanks, pilots or cooling systems.
The Germans made quad 20mm mounts, since single 20mm AA were pretty obsolete to shoot down fighters, at least with their WW2 RoF.
So four to five 20mm are probably as effective as a single 37mm.
In the example with the P-47, a 37mm was around 5 times as effective than a single 20mm, but that was also against the front, where the 37mm had a very high chance to knock out the engine.
Around 4.5-5 20mm bring the same fragment amount into the target as a 37mm but more hits means more chance for a one shot kill.
30mm Mineshells were more deadly to fighters than 37mm HEF-T, because fighters have far less structure than bombers.
It takes around 1.5x 37mm to take out fighter, since there’s always the chance that some place is hit where the high damage doesn’t matter, so you would sometimes need two 37mm hits.
Then we’re talking about 5-6 20mm HEFI hits in comparison.
Of course the smaller the target, the more effective Mineshells become.
For a Bf 109 and Yak we are probably talking about 2-3, Spitfire 3-4 and P-47 4-5.
For an IL-2 it’s probably 6-7 because the fuselage, with engine, pilot and fuel, is practically immune, leaving only wings and tail controls to damage.
Even though I’m not sure how those wooden wings are holding up to Mineshell damage.
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@KillaKiwi
Well, one thing for sure, Yak-3U was designed specifically to counter that, thanks to innovative Soviet lizard-tail technology.
You can shed significant parts of both wings and dogfight, you can shed a part of a tail and still be flying fine, while enemy thinks he scored a kill.
I heard Stalin designed it himself, shaping its fuselage aerodynamic model out of 21370kg marble block using his bare fingers, as if it was clay.
Anyway, my aim absolutely sucks, missed all 30mm shots, I played this match like an absolute muppet in general, but god damn, I thought he’s not going to be able to stall fight without a wingtip, yet he completed super low speed stall maneuver no problem. Then he almost got me with no left wing. Then he lost half his elevator and got his rudder heavily damaged and it did not cause any further problems.
To kill this guy I had to j-out (I had 40s of fuel and 0 ammo and would not make it back to base in time anyway).
I don’t think that buffing the guns is any kind of solution to such problems, lol.