that was my critique, just inversed
A very small list of vehicles which includes the Leopard 2K and 2AV
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which both are vastly better
Other than ammunition, both don’t have turret protection to trade shots
both the 2av and the leo 2k have better firepower and mobility
that was my critique, just inversed
What were you criticizing, the fact I said that the FV4030/3 shouldn’t face against vehicles like the T-55AM? It’s crazy if you believe that the 4030/3 should face against it, you also probably believe that the Fox isn’t a little gremlin as well lmao.
A very small list of vehicles which includes the Leopard 2K and 2AV
That isn’t relevant to balance, the FV4030/3 both statistically and in real scenarios was overperforming and therefor went up, it was doing exceedingly well and I spotted this early.
The FV4030/3 has significantly better turret armour (2K and 2AV) and hull armour when compared to the (2K), significantly better reload, better overall magnification (gunner/commander), better survivability when compared to the 2K and is more uptier proof than both.
The 2K and 2AV undoubtedly have their pros over the FV4030/3 but all those three vehicles at good at their respective BR, the 2K however is slowly getting powercrept.
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pointless in 99% of cases.
really? lmao, it has barely any armor to stop the weakest apfsds shells in the game this is a TERRIBLE take
absolutely not wtf are you smoking speed and mobility is always preferable over armor, especially if said armor is crap
Using one wrong to say why something is bad isn’t a good arguement
Instead of taking a holistic view over BRs, you looked at the worst example comparing it to 8.7s instead of other 9.7s
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pointless in 99% of cases
The pointless in question, didn’t know 450mm to 460mm of RHA was pointless and especially at its current BR of 9.7 lmao. Next will you tell me that the turret protection on the 2A7HU isn’t adequate enough for 12.0?
really? lmao, it has barely any armor to stop the weakest apfsds shells in the game this is a TERRIBLE take
Having 600mm of chemical protection when compared to the 2Ks 180mm of chemical protection is terrible? Yeah so true, armour is a thing of the past apparently.
Jokes aside, just because it may have poor RHA equivalency (280mm) doesn’t mean its chemical protection is bad, it’ll stop all HEAT projectiles around its BR (obviously not tandem missiles and such) - still significantly better than the chemical protection the 2K offers lmao.
absolutely not wtf are you smoking speed and mobility is always preferable over armor, especially if said armor is crap
Next to no vehicles can effectively penetrate the FV4030/3 at 9.7 and the same can be said for 10.0 other than few exceptions, its RHA equivalency on the turret cheeks is excellent and even the side chemical protection on the turret is fantastic - stop underplaying this beast.
The mobility of the FV4030/3 isn’t even bad anyways, it’s not like the Chally 2 TES or anything lol
The FV4030/3 is so bad that it should actually move down to 9.0 and anyone who disagrees is Britishphobic and clearly bias!
Because its not like the other 9.7s aren’t significantly worse than the FV4030/3, and exceptions like the T-64BV are bad examples as they themselves should also move up to 10.0…
Jesus, you guys honestly believe the 4030/3 is bad? Go play it for yourself
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good thing i was talking about 10.0 then.
ah yes as if 99% of threats werent kinetic but go on more disengenuos arguments.
this is patently untrue, it has at best 360mm of kinetical protection in the front hull, the massive hull is one big weakspot.
no i dont, besides strawmen and bad faith arguments do you have anything? my point was always that at 9.7 it was fine, quite strong sure, but not out of line with other 9.7, next update 9.7 is basically not going to exist. at 10.0 it has no place. at 9.7 it was a competitive tank.
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ah yes as if 99% of threats werent kinetic but go on more disengenuos arguments
God forbid anyone is stock grinding a vehicle, you’ll still encounter HEAT projectiles and the UFP is angled in a way that if you hit the higher parts of it then you’ll automatically bounce mostly anything INCLUDING kinetic projectiles like APFSDS.
this is patently untrue, it has at best 360mm of kinetical protection in the front hull, the massive hull is one big weakspot
You play the FV4030/3 as a sniper as you play the Centauro RGO as a flanker, I was obviously talking about its turret protection but you’re so fixated on hull protection that this fact flew over your head lmao.
Additionally, the entire hull or the entire vehicle in fact is a weak spot and I’m talking about the Leopard 2K, if you’re going to wine about the LFP then don’t forget about the protection the 2K has or the lack there is.
no i dont, besides strawmen and bad faith arguments do you have anything? my point was always that at 9.7 it was fine, quite strong sure, but not out of line with other 9.7, next update 9.7 is basically not going to exist. at 10.0 it has no place. at 9.7 it was a competitive tank
Have you played the FV4030/3? If you’ve struggled with it then its a gameplay issue, if you haven’t then where is this conclusion coming from? The FV4030/3 is borderline busted at 9.7, not “quite strong” as you claim.
It was comparable to the Obj. 279 at 8.7, it simply shouldn’t be at 9.7, it furthermore has superior protection than both the 10.3 and 10.7 Challengers but I’m yet to see you mention this, the only difference between the 10.3 and 9.7 Chally is the lack of L23A1 and thermals (which are generation 1).
I guess the Challenger Mk.2 is unusable according to you XD
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for the first 4 rounds*
It has the same micro ready rack and stupidly long replenishment time the CR1 and CR2s have
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we dont balance around stock vehicles + thats far from exclusive to fv4030.
hardly something you can do every map, theres a reason why dedicated snipers are iffy in the game unless theyre drastically undertiered.
good think the 2k has great mobility and a better gun to compensate!
sabra mk1, amx 40, t64bv all are equal and in some ways better, with the sabra actually being op, and the amx40 being a bit worse because its paper armor and not much better mobility. t64bv being strong as hell with extremely good armor over all and 3bm42 to boot. to me it sound like you dont like 9.7 existing as a bracket.
which is very big, and in general the mk2 isnt particularly good for the br either
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we dont balance around stock vehicles + thats far from exclusive to fv4030
I never said anything like that lol, the FV4030/3 has good protection for 9.7 and continues to have good protection if moved up to 10.0 and defiantly far greater protection than the 2K.
hardly something you can do every map, theres a reason why dedicated snipers are iffy in the game unless theyre drastically undertiered
Show me more than 3 examples of map which don’t allow sniping, I’ve rarely came across this issue with the FV4030/3 and even when I do I always find the mobility adequate enough to take me to point A to point B anyways.
good think the 2k has great mobility and a better gun to compensate
Gun? Not really, it the FV4030/3 has a 5 seconds flat reload and has near on par penetration minus angled armour, the gun handling is also very similar on both vehicles so I’d prefer to take that superior reload rate which in-game is significantly more impactful.
sabra mk1, amx 40, t64bv all are equal and in some ways better, with the sabra actually being op, and the amx40 being a bit worse because its paper armor and not much better mobility. t64bv being strong as hell with extremely good armor over all and 3bm42 to boot
Like I said, the T-64BV itself needs to move up to 10.0 and isn’t a good example, the FV4030/3 also has significantly better mobility than the Sabra Mk.1 and better gun handling and optics than the AMX-40 including overall protection and survivability.
which is very big, and in general the mk2 isnt particularly good for the br either
L23A1 trades flat penetration for angled penetration and the difference isn’t ground breaking as well, thermals on the Mk.2 is also only generation 1 - the thermals are the only impactful difference for BR.
The later variants of the Challenger 1s and all Challenger 2s have a different ready rack than found on both the Challenger Mk.2 and FV4030/3 so its not 4 for all of them tanks if including already loaded ammunition - you also shouldn’t be firing that much at a single target making that point null.
I’ve been playing top tier Britain for almost a decade and whenever the Challenger 2 first came out I’ve never had a issue with it and this continues to not be a concern in 2025, it should be expanded yes but it isn’t my main critique of the vehicle series.
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i swear this argument is pure nonsense, you seem to be disregarding how the game actually is at this brs, armor is pointless unless you have insane amounts, maps are terrible, sniping spots limited and predictable, thermals are massively important, reload rate is great but not better than mobility which the 2k has significantly more of, youre disregarding all the very blatant weakpoints of the fv4030 and acting like its this massively over powered thing, when factually its inline with pretty much every other 9.7 tank with strenghts and weaknesses. and again terrible take, the game isnt played in a vacuum if the fv4030 had a lineup at 10.0 it would be fine although not the best, it doesnt have a lineup at 10.0 the only thing it has is one of the weakest ifvs in the game and a mediocre spaa that needs uptiering, and even if you uptier it to 10.3 what you have is another mediocre lineup and the fv4030 is the weakest part of it.
The reason we’re continuously going back and forth is because we’re both listing the pros of the Leopard 2K and FV4030/3 and comparing one another and shock shock horror - they have pros and cons over one another.
I never said the 2K was better than the FV4030/3 and vice versa, both are good vehicles and especially in the right hands, they’re literally the definition of 10.0 vehicles and are a good standard for when comparing to other vehicles.
The FV4030/3 was simply too strong at 9.7 and moved up, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand…
i did, the leo 2k is significantly better its Significantly faster and it has a better gun reload rate is worse but still adequate, and whilst it has no armor, the shir 2 also has very little armor against kinetic threats(90% of what you face), and you can say “but its a sniper!1!1!” all you want but we both know that for war thunder mobility and being able to flank is infinetely more useful because of how most maps are.
and my point is that youre wrong, its not much better than any other 9.7 and it seems to me both you an gaijin think dismantling 9.7 was the better way to fix it, you do realize that now the only 9.7 tank is the t64bv? which we both agree is extremely strong? and really 9.0+ shouldnt have any issue dealing with 9.7 and 8.7? is just a terrible br in general with few weird tanks with vastly different capabilites, and 99% of 8.7s struggle against 9.3 just as much as they do 9.7. a chieftain mk3 will fight a t64a the same way they do the bv, which is hope they can hit the tiny weakspots, same for t72a, i fought the shir 2 a few times in my mk3, and id rather fight that over the t64s or the t72 because the weakspots are easier to hit. i imagine its similar for t62s and m60s alike.(not that many 8.7 tanks anymore)
Genuine ragebait, I’ve extensively listed reasons why the FV4030/3 is a excellent vehicle and why it at 10.0 isn’t going to change anything, you’ve continuously overlooked my points and ignore my arguments - I even included visual demonstrations lol.
I’m not going to entertain this loop of a argument
The FV4030/3 is moving up because its too good at 9.7, simple
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absolute mental insanity, it changes that it doesnt have a lineup anymore, also a oddbawz video is hardly relevant in an argument lmao
together with every other 9.7 besides the t64bv because of reasons, except that unless youre comparing them to 8.7s these tanks really arent particularly strong compared to any other full uptier.
maybe you’d actually understand my point if you stopped living in lala land.
i forgot to mention that this uptier also makes the rapier irrelevant as now theres no reason to use it over any of the other 10.3 spaas as its the only 9.7 vehicle in the tree
absolute mental insanity, it changes that it doesnt have a lineup anymore
Desert Warrior, Rapier, Rooikat 105, VFM5, Khalid, Buccaneer, Harrier GR.3 and Wessex…
The T-80UD/DU-1 is the only Chinese vehicle at 10.7 excluding aviation post BR adjustments yet it’ll remain at its BR, lineups aren’t a consideration for BR placement.
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Desert warrior is the only actual 10.0 vehicle, rapier is 9.7, rooiket 105 is a 9.7 premium, vfm5 is 9.3, khalid is a premium aircraft arent part of the conversation.
chinese 10.3 can pick up the slack quite easily, much like the 9.3 Lineup for great britain did.
lineups are a consideration for br placement, im fairly sure gaijin has stated so before(and why wouldnt they? a multitude of strong vehicles are much more important than a single vehicle).