Okay but you gotta understand that in the current version of the game, nothing is realistic - shrapnel doesnt bounce around, APHE with 155g of TNT with a highly volatile explosive dont cause ovepressure somehow and the crew act as hitpoints.
The problem is that APHE at the moment is utterly broken, and those that abuse it absolutely will not vote truthfully to have it realistically nerfed. If War Thunder released an update where bombers required 1000 cannon shells to down do you think bomber pilots would vote against it? How about if AP rounds as mentioned earlier exploded magically like APHE so Tiger’s etc got one shot knocked out by it do you think AP users will vote against it? Of course not.
Some things especially when it’s widely documented such as this don’t require polls, if anything it should’ve been sorted as a bug fix.
For the reasons mentioned above. Those graphs if true are also incredibly suspect and I’d be willing to bet that bots were involved. Yes was clearly winning for a very long time…
That’s not an argument to not fix APHE. You’ve basically just said “hey other rounds are weak so lets leave APHE completely overpowered”.
In regards to realism War Thunder does strive for authenticity. To make changes to weapons etc or vehicles you need to provide genuine documentation for doing so. If the game wasn’t based with realism in mind then why doesn’t AP one shot kill tanks automatically like APHE? If this was the case people would scream “that’s not how AP works!!”
…Whilst they one click delete enemy tanks with shots to the engine or cupola.
APHE needs nerfing and there’s zero excuses as to why it isn’t other than “gaem is haerd”. To be blunt you’ll still have a more powerful round than standard AP so shut up and get on with it.
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Of course people vote depending their own interest you force an opened door. Persons can vote yes to reduce the gap between ap and aphe, and dont Say these Guy dont play ap rounds. Also it’s kinda short to sum no voters to they dont want their toy to be broken, firstly because everybody has access to aphe shells, and also because they can also want gaijin to focus on other features than this very change, or because they just dont find that current aphe needs a rework, since ppl Always played this aphe, and i’ve personally never asked me this kind of question, like a large ammount of players since it has been rejected, and not for the 1st time according to some ppl here. Coming with this also the br balance, which depends mostly on aphe, being sent to Moon, without any reference to a change of it too in the article, and also the fact that even if they would do it, br balance is still not fully fix for a few year ago rework of aphe.
Also, it’s not by nerfing the aphe that ap/apcr will get magically better. Ap/apcr will still do same ammount of pen and post pen. And also, do not summarize ap post pen to only subatomic shell. Also the realism problem is kinda in the sense that please ppl. It’s for this reason that ppl want an aphe that one shot (1st shot advantage), but also one what doesnt one shot
Well shit, this went downhill.
I would take a KV-1 over an Ikv 103 any day. The KV imo is a far superior vehicle, especially at that BR.
I do play sweden- I quite literally main the nation. If you want, I can show you a picture of my tech tree, if you are too lazy to check my player stats yourself.
The KV is definitely not just a giant moving explosive fuel tank (Facing it I have never seen the fuel explode, around ww2 BRs it fuel never really does), and it has excellent armor, decent mobility, and a competent cannon.
The Ikv 72, while it may have that filler, is 2.3 BRs below the others.
Breda has overpressure, which is significant, but beyond that they are fairly similar guns.
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Most Governments win or lose by that margin so the vote stands
I know you do ,it’s obvious in every post you make trying to tell me it’s not op and full of vehicles that are game breaking .I play it too and enjoy the OP nature but I admit it is what it is.
Yet thousands of people have been playing it for years and have zero problem with it.What is broken about it? Some shots you get, some you don’t .How will that be different with an other type of projectile? Skill and map knowledge still prevail in this game.
You pump more air into a football or take some out it wont make you a better footballer
That is not true - there are numerous posts on the old forum complaining that APHE is too good.
Try searching: war thunder old forum APHE site:old-forum.warthunder.com - the first page has 1 post as far back as 2016:
Because the proportion of “shots you get, some you won’t” is heavily skewed in favor of APHE vs solid shot of all types (HVAP, AP with or without C, APCR)
IRL any penetration would generally KO a tank (or cause abandonment) - it was not the internal damage that caused it as it is in WT - therefore APHE causing more internal damage than those other types is an inherent non-historical advantage.
If you haven’t figured that out yet then you haven’t been paying attention.
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Off course it’s true .Most of WTs players dont even do the forum they just get on with playing and using what is there.
Shot does not perform as APHE does and thousands of players don’t expect it to and accept the difference.I have for 3 years.Solid AP is what it is in the game.I am more concerned with what I am firing it at in the copy paste spam world of current War Thunder or the fact many of us are banned form playing due to a bug. Priority.
You forget this game is not about realism in any way.If it was it would have maps related to the vehicles on it as a basic element.It would have vehicles of the correct era fighting in a relevant scenario or it may have some form of nation vs nation set up.It has none of those elements so why fixate over the physics details of the ammunition while the game play dies and the game is no longer fun ?
Forget the shot fix the maps.
So why are you saying that aphe is too powerful ? It more looks like others shell arent enough
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I wonder how many are genuinely confused by it all.I did think this was an APHE buff not solid shot AP.
We don’t have a physics for crews abandoning tanks do we ? Post pen toxic gas was a major reason for that as well.I see an issue where shot does not spin around post pen as it might but that is from a two second clip on replay.
I just think overall the ammo is what it is and we are all used to it if we have been playing years.
Over game elements suck big time when it comes to anything verging in realism and immersion.People are walking away from the uptier big time and it’s killing the game,they are ODL and killing the game and yet we have this to vote on.
This is flat out wrong. People have been complaining for years, Google “War Thunder APHE OP” and look at the sheer amount of results that pop up. The only people happy with APHE are the APHE spammers as they’re essentially playing physics breaking easy mode.
This goes both ways. Plenty no doubt are also playing and hate the broken nature of APHE as proven in the votes/graph right until one side got a certain magic instant vote boost…
APHE doesn’t perform how APHE does.
I think a massively overpowered and broken round has more importance over copy pasted tanks and this is coming from someone who hates those as well… especially in sim. Like I mentioned earlier it’s like having AP being an automatic one hit kill and then saying “nah I think copied tanks are the bigger problem…”
This game is very much about realism. The tanks move in a realistic manner, the aircraft are made to fly according to official data and the tank armour and most of the rounds are modelled to be as realistic as possible. The only game balancing is done via B.R.
If we aren’t going for realism then like I said lets make AP an automatic one shot kill, increase the Churchill’s max speed to 20mph, remove carburettor failure from early Merlin engines or nerf DB601’s so they choke as well, reduce the Zero’s agility to match P-51’s and lower the Tiger II’s armour to 100mm like the Tiger I so more tanks can frontally penetrate it.
This is why I find this entire thing comical, if Gaijin did any of these things people would scream bloody murder. Yet they’re absolutely fine with hand hold auto-nuke APHE rounds that unfairly decimate tanks with poor shots.
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Yes, better than accepting the results. It’s funny to see that when it was 52-48 for the yes, it was a good win for the yes, but when it is in favor of no, then it’s a too short advance to be considered.
Well, most ppl think that there are more important things to fix, work, that’s also why they Can vote no, not just only to not break toys as lot of ppl Say
This game claims to be the most realistic tank/plane/boat game, it doesnt mean realistic
Once again, most people think that there are more importants fixes to do, or rework. It doesnt mean everybody think it’s the most important rework just because you do.
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If “no” was winning or just pipped the vote at the end I’d still be irked at the results but I’d accept it for what it was, the people have spoken and all that.
Nothing about the final stage of that vote was natural, you cannot look at that instant vertical climb in the graph and think “seems legit”. I’d bet good money bot accounts were involved if any investigation takes place.
That’s not what’s happening at all, people vote no because they don’t want an APHE change because they’re comfortable with it. The vote wasn’t about should they change APHE now or later it was literally “do we fix APHE or not?”.
I bet if Gaijin fixes map designs etc and once again people ask should APHE be changed certain individuals will once again scream no because “balance”. Ignoring the fact they’re the ones using the single most broken thing in tank battles right now.
I’ve already answered this in my previous post but to reiterate: every vehicle is brought in with statistics matching official datasheets. Vehicles have even been removed due to a lack of realism. Each round (excluding APHE) is modelled to try to be as accurate as possible with Gaijin even changing their calculation method a few years back to be more realistic and the damage model is designed to replicate reality.
The only “gamey” feature in the game is the crew not abandoning the tanks after a single hit and the repairs. Every round other than this acts more or less the way it should…except APHE…
It’s not just me that did…the majority did.
Right until that magic instant spike in votes that was totally not suspicious at all.
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I love that, especially because the extremely necessary fixes in the game are: The damage model, where it comes to making the APHE realistic and all the other projectiles get a little more spalling and above all more consistency in that damage. Adjusting the penetration calculator, since despite the fact that it works well for the most part, there are many minion that pierce much less than they should, like the 90mm T33 or the 20mm DM43. Adjusting the volumetric bullets, since despite the fact that it is realistic that each bullet has its volume, when interacting with certain areas of armor it causes absurd bounces.
Those would be the three most important fixes for the GF, the minimum for the game to be acceptable, after this there could be changes to other things to improve the game even more, like bigger, more open maps and modifying the old ones so that there is not so much CQC.
When i go on the poll i Havent that graph, and if i refer to what people say, most of votes are from England/europe, so these biased votes from the russian cc arent that game changer
Once again no, you’re wrong, ppl dis not all vote no for this, i did for the reasons you saw, and all the persons that said no in this topic did this for that. It’s increadible that you say you more know than me why did i vote no. It’s as if i told that ppl vote yes just because they want their toy carrying ap being Closer to aphe
Then i’ll reiterate too : wt claims to be most realistic tank/boat/plane game. They didnt Say they are 100% realist, it’s not the same. There are plenty of things that are not accurate but that gaijin did for balance. And being accurate also is not technically possible, since you cant simulate a shot in half a tenth, when it takes days/weeks on shell simulator.
No that’s not, but doing the list aint a link with the topic
Sorry for you, but a poll has a closing time, either just close it when it gives a result that you like.
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There are also else that come me in my head, but that’s off topic
Idk why do some persons dont understand that we all not have the same priority list. At least it looks like you do
Do try to follow the debate and not just pick 1 post and think you have it sussed - yes APHE is too powerful in comparison to solid shot - so yes, buffing others would be fine to get them into balance, as has been stated previously.
But neither buffing solid nor nerfing APHE would actually make the WT damage/kil mechanic anything close to something real.
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Not AFAIK in WW2
No worry i’ve been here for last 2k messages, and i Can say that this point goes in every sense possible that please ppl. Ppl say that for realism aphe should not one shot, and other claims that for realism all the shells should one shot, and you even say both, and now you even say that the rework wouldnt add a “real realism”, but some ppl still cant accept a justification pf persons because they voted no
You are confusing concepts. One thing is realistic bullet damage, that is, the spalling it generates and the direction it follows, and another is realistic vehicle destruction, which is that when the tank is penetrated it is destroyed, since the surviving crew abandons the vehicle and because in reality the transmission is not repaired in 30 seconds.
In short, a player can perfectly ask for one thing or another. For example, I ask for realistic bullet damage as a minimum, but if realistic destructions were implemented I wouldn’t think it was bad either, since it would be the most balanced way, one penetration = one death.