So, apparently:
-Gaijin is going to FURTHER BUFF APHE by implementing additional shell cap damage effects.
-But they are not going to implement the CORRECTION that would balance it out by not making it a nuclear bomb just because biased people voted against it.
Which means that APHE will now be EVEN STRONGER than any other shell in the game.
Outstanding.
They should either implement both corrections, or none. But this is nonsense.
Lots of people care about this.
Sure, people might care about it, but the entire statement said “no one cares when it’s impossible to achieve” however… it most definitely is capable to achieve a semblance of realism in war thunder and as we’ve seen time and time and time and time again they specifically choose not to do this.
I personally do heavily care about historical accuracy, but my care diminishes when the developer A: chooses not to pursue it and B: prioritizes making money over it. There’s a lot of cases where historical accuracy makes the game unfun and no amount of hashed together “realism” is going to be historically accurate. The majority of the community want a fun game before a historically accurate one and that’s how it’s going to stay.
“Realism within the limits of a playable computer game”
Yeah this is just completely dishonest, there are excellent simulators out there that model mechanics significantly better than war thunder, let’s not act like they couldn’t flesh out mechanics and provide a more realistic/simulator experience. They’ve been gutting the only simulator mode and making it more and more casual for years.
Even the people who say they don’t care have a limit, somewhere. It’s easy to imagine a counterfactual where just about anyone would say the reduced realism would make them lose interest. Replacing all the 20mms with Star Wars blaster sounds; putting tanks made of Lego into regular play; give players to have their jets spew out a stream of soap bubbles instead of exhaust; Team Fortress Classic crossover, etc. All fun if instituted. But people would still stop playing if they go there. There’s lots of “unrealistic” games.
This point doesn’t make sense.
Honestly, most of Gaijin’s testing usually ends with poor results and they just slap it in the game anyway (Naval, Top tier air, Helicopters) so I’m most definitely satisfied with keeping the game the way it is in this regard and denying new testing all together. APHE is used by a lot of nations and I think it’s fine the way it is.
Apcr
They would be almost on par, but the APCR is still minimally useful, while the HESH has practically no use in the game. If you use the M48, you will load APCR before HESH.
Game != real life. But that is not what War Thunder is about.
War Thunder is about giving players the most realistic real time simulation possible for it’s weaponry and armor physics (within reason), simplifying controls for easy use, adjusting the vehicle’s battle ratings to compensate for historical tech advantages, and throwing them into unrealistic scenarios to show players what could theoretically happen. All while making a boat load of money.
You can’t have this with artificially buffed/nerfed vehicles and ammunition. This, and only this part of the game must be as realistic as possible.
Ok, I’ll try again. Hypothetical: I think they should allow repair of aircraft in flight now. They allow you to repair other vehicles, after all. When your plane gets damaged a bunch of little gnomes or droids could run out on the wings and fix things up. And then other players could shoot off your gnomes to delay repairs. Fun new mechanic! No downside that I can see. What’s the counterargument? Remember you’re not allowed to use the words “historical”, “realism” or “accuracy” in arguing against. Also I think all planes should be able to warp across the battlefield once per game, like the Millenium Falcon. Fun right?
“The way it is” was not an option in this poll, only a) buff it or b) test to see if we can counter the buff with a nerf. “Buff it” won.
The argument against plane repairing is that in air, movement is life. If you’re damaged but can still fly, you could possibly limp back to the airfield or die trying. It’s still engaging.
In ground, you could be shot at and disabled, and then the person shooting you gets sniped. You’re not dead, but if you can’t repair, you’ll just be sitting there until someone finds you, the game ends, or you J out. Not engaging.
And ground vehicle repair doesn’t impact the simulation aspects that War Thunder focuses on.
Ho no! Please don’t! We will have a H-bomb in every APHE! This is so objectively bad!
They are only going to add the shell cap. The rest of the spalling stays the same.
Due to a number of technical reasons, secondary fragments from APHE shells differ and are worse compared to fragments from regular, solid AP shells. When reworking fragmentation fields, we’ll enhance the secondary fragments of APHE shells to the level of solid AP shells.
In other words, the armor spalling of APHE will only be increased IF the changes to fragmentation are done.
Yet people accuse the “no” voters of being illiterate…
Typo, had just woke up, corrected
And irregardless, point still stands- APHE, which has been universally acknowledged to be OP for years, is now receiving a further big buff while not being toned down realistically to balance it out.
I agree, which is why this change needs to happen.
You made a good try, for sure. Not to take this too off topic, but I’m not sure I would have said, “oh this is so engaging” the last time I was falling out of the air on fire, though.
I mean even that method of destruction (or your struggling home scenario) has a tie to realism. It’s engaging only because we read stories about how stuff like that really happened. There are other equally fun/engaging ways to convey the “you died” info there. People prefer the one that reminds them of real things though, I suspect.
Me, I liken it to a set of miniatures rules in tabletop wargaming. I want my set of plane models, all lovingly decalled, to fight your plane models for fun. What are the rules? Maybe it’s because I actually did that with friends and toy soldiers when I was a kid. And yeah, we’d add new rules to our growing ruleset each time to make things look more like the books we’d read and movies we’d seen. It was iterative progression within the confines of a tabletop game. And if the rules had got too boring or too silly or too biased to one side I’d have literally taken my toys and gone home.
I disagree with War Thunder when they add realism and disagree when they remove it. I don’t expect perfection, but I do expect the attempt. So yes, in that sense I do “care about realism.”
Getting back to topic, in this case, realism and gameplay both went in the same direction anyway. No one, literally no one, wanted APHE to be even more buffed a week ago, but because of a bafflingly stupid social media strategy Gaijin has now boxed themselves in to that result.
That’s an assumption. Adding the shell cap and secondary frags from the cap is also changing fields. At least we don’t know it isn’t.
If they had put that section AFTER the “here’s what we want you to vote on” line I’d say you’re right.
If you go back to OP, the first Tiger graphic before/after shows the changes if they only do the buff, which is what people voted for. The second Tiger set with the cupola shot shows the counter-nerf.
In the first diagram, because of head preservation only, a center mass APHE shot that only takes out the driver today now will take out driver, gunner AND engine. That’s a SIGNIFICANT buff, and people voted down the counter-nerf.
If he had said “additional spalling/damage from the shell cap”, that would be perfectly fine and correct.
However, as he himself has stated (after all, he apologizeed for being wrong), he was refering to APHE armor spalling being increased to the same level as solid shot armor spalling, which is not happening if the vote fails, as Gaijin themselves have stated.
I never stated that the shell cap wasn’t a buff either.
Well, I was referring to that and I thought it was understandable enough xd. And I still edited it for further clarity afterwards.
Even if my writing abilities were not at my peak because I had just woken up, the point should have still come across rather clearly without calling out “illiterancy”, duh.
Yeah, and a lot of people, even those that went with the “no” option, disagree with APHE having the additional nose mechanic. I do myself.
Well, but, as the dev blog states, that change is non-negotiable.
So APHE is getting a non-negotiable buff while not getting the correction that would tone it down to reasonable levels; therefore making the OP shell OP+.
That certainly looks impressive.
The question is how effective the fragments would be from such explosion.
And of course this:
In many cases an uncapped APHE would just shatter into many pieces after penetrating sloped or thick armor plates.
Only in rare cases where the armor is thin and the shell penetrates intact, would the bursting charge even have an effect.
So most of the time APHE would infact just deal the same damage as solid AP, at least when it comes to defeating armor at the higher penetration limit.
Not to mention the many times the fuze would fail or even detonate the round before it reaches its full armor piercing potential.
Just thinking about that makes you realize why the concept of APHE was abandoned by pretty much anyone after WW2, except a big country of big gun users :)
Honestly the whole discussion only really showed that it shouldn’t matter how APHE performs but that any round penetrating should just knock out the vehicle the same way APHE can do at the moment.
The entire killing system should be reworked.
