Think I’m going to repeat what others said, but I’ll put it in one post to be more clear.
Few months ago I also went through tankarchives looking for information about the up-armored T-50. I think it was in 1942 when they suggested building an up-armored version, so that the production would not be ceased. I couldn’t either find where that 40+17=57mm thickness comes from. Some years ago people actually measured the armor of T-50 “Niki” in Parola and results were 37+14=51mm on front. All claimed 40mm plates were actually 37mm.
It is very apparent that Finnish added the armor on this T-50 by themselves. First of all the records tell that only a single T-50 was send from Leningrad to Finnish front. There are those clear photos in SA archive of an abandoned T-50, which appears to be practically intact. Only apparent damaged parts are the bend mudflaps and missing headlight. The first known photos of “Niki” are over two years later. It comes with three unique things not seen in photos or drawings of any other T-50s: Two folding frog style headlights, square mudflaps and the add-on armor on turret sides and hull front.
The add-on armor is also attached with unique bolts. I haven’t seen such used in any of the Soviet tanks with add-on armor. However the same type of bolts were used on the armor upgraded T-26 “Viku”, which only appears in those photos where it’s sitting next to “Niki” in a garage and in this one I posted. The add-on armor layout on “Viku” is also slightly different to Soviet T-26E. Most certainly these two tanks were up-armored together in the same depot. Both “Niki” and “Viku” were used as command tanks.
I think “Niki” would well fit to any of these three spots in Sweden & Finland tree:
As normal vehicle on rank II between T-28 and T-34. Rank II is empty between them.
As gold eagle premium on rank II. There are no gold eagle premiums on Sweden rank II.
As a new starter pack premium on rank II. Strv m/41 S-I there just isn’t interesting.
The Finnish armoured vehicles 1918 - 1997, Esa Muikku & Jukka Purhonen, 1998
This book confirms the 14.5 ton weight and states the usual 52km/h top speed. I see jaegerplatoon website listed just 37.5km/h top speed to this modified T-50, but honestly that large drop doesn’t make sense to me. It is almost low enough to be the 3rd gear top speed. Maybe it could be top speed on dirt road or Finnish had some strange testing standards.
I don’t think it’s unlikely to have been a conscious choice by the Finns to govern the top speed.
The T-50 already seems to have had issues with both the engine and transmission in soviet service. And the extra armour certainly wouldn’t have helped. Tuning the gear ratios and perhaps downtuning the engine in order to increase its lifespan wouldn’t be an odd choice.
I agree they could have limited the engine RPM mechanically or restricted the driver from going over certain temperature limits. I rather meant the weight increase on itself doesn’t seem high enough for such top speed drop. Other possibility are engine or transmission parts they weren’t able to fix.
I made big noises about cut and paste and my dislike for the Finland tree but I am seeing great suggestions now. Your Stu40 suggestion was excellent.I would certainly support that kind of thing and similar vehicles.
I tried to search for more information and photos to find out who did the armor upgrade. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be certainty.
In June 1941 Soviets proposed to increase T-50’s armor, but there is nothing indicating if this was carried out or even approved. Usually Soviets kept good records of things, thus it’s hard to see why this information would be missing. I think the only option would be if the upgrade was carried out by an army depot. Even that option is unlikely, since none of the other 12 photographed T-50s, have no additional armor or signs of having it before. That is 12 out of the 48 completed T-50s. It would not be efficient work to only upgrade one tank. Furthermore the proposed armor upgrade does not match the Finnish T-50.
“Finnish armoured vehicles” book doesn’t have anything about this, but strangely enough a Russian book “T-50. The best light tank of the Great Patriotic War (2019)” claims the upgrade was done by Finns. The same thing is said in the article in Tank Archives.
It appears Finnish don’t have their records available online and they can only be accessed in Helsinki. It could be possible to ask from that person running jagerplatoon website as he seem be a regular visitor in there. There exists five photos of what is claimed to be К-11217 abandoned on roadside bank, photographed by Finns. It is the only abandoned T-50 photographed by them.
Glad to see the ingame T-50 armor thickness was adjusted and top speed also reported. This should make it easier to add Niki. The way those ammo racks deplete still remain very random, but that doesn’t seem to be a big issue. It doesn’t seem to have total of 150 rounds in there.
There was a bugreport about T-50 top speed to get it from planned 60km/h to production vehicle 52km/h, but they still haven’t implemented that. Maybe they might not do that at all? This also makes me wonder what they would give to this one. We have just one tertiary source mentioning 37.5km/h and nothing about what kind of conditions that was achieved in.
Yeah we just dont know, some sources suggest 60, some say 52 and some even 63! But armour nerf is already bad for T-50 and now it cant bounce German 50mm. A speed nerf might just bump it down to 2.3 br. I hope it keeps its speed because the gun and turret traaverse it really letting it down and T-50 really relies on mobilty.
It still has as good gun, very good moblity and one of the best armors at 2.7. At 2.3 there are too many sluggish paper boxes. In my view over 50km/h isn’t even that often achieved due to speed losses when going up hills or turning corners. It will be difficult to decide if Finnish T-50 would fit better on 2.7 or 3.0.
Your point of mobility is true. Armour of T-50 is not too good, the front mantlet is a giant consistent weak sopt, same with the cupola. And gun can become tricky when facing shermans and Churchills. I think can be at 2.7 but requires skill.
Probably at 2.7 due to lower mobility and the turret mantlet weaksopt is not covered with any additional armour. Gaijin also likes to remove some shells from captured vehicles, so maybe APCR will be removed? Who knows.
I can’t really remember any mentions about the APCR round in Finnish sources. It could have been that rare.
Definitely T-50 requires it’s own way of fighting if the enemies know to shoot at the turret. If it had turret rotation speed of T-34, it could be even at 3.0, but with this it’s too difficult to get the first shot.
Must have been really poor cranking system if it really had this poor rotation speed or it’s unknown and snail uses it as balance function.
It was hand cranked irl, so the slow speed is there.
I dont understand why the traverse of the T-80 and T-50 are not same, one would think that the T-80 has a lighter turret and only 2 crew would traverse even faster than the T-50.
It depends how well balanced the turret is, how the hand crank is geared and if there is crank wheel for two or only for one. There are certainly faster hand cranked turrets in game.
Early on in Finnish service seems to have remained unpainted or at best had something very fated on it. Could be just the original Soviet paint. 15.2.1942.
Finns have the 6-cylinder inline engine on display in the museum. In WT damage model we still have a miniature V-12. The tank also misses radio and ammo racks don’t seem to match.
