Fibrotex Camouflage System: Going Dark

[mytipcreamin]

[Would you like to see Fibrotex in-game?]

• Yes
• No

Hello, I would like to suggest the Fibrotex packages for the Merkava Mk.3, Merkava Mk.4, and possibly other vehicles. This modification could be quite interesting if it were to come to War Thunder. Not only does it make the visually appealing Merkava tank even more visually appealing, but it provides a wealth of benefits to the operating vehicle which I will go over in this post.

This is the companies video that goes over the basics of the technology. As you can see, this tech has many uses beyond mounting tanks.

This video shows how the technology works on a small scale

Who is Fibrotex?:

Fibrotex is an Israeli company that specializes in concealment technology. They have been around since 1965, and has previously worked with Israel’s Military delivering special uniforms to elite units of the IDF. Their goal is to provide protection from all known sensors that could be used to detect assets.

Protective Abilities:

The Fibrotex packages are not designed to provide protection from munitions of any kind, but rather protect from many of the electro-optic and electromagnetic wavelengths such as UV, VIS, NIR, TIR, SWIR, and Radar. While that can sound like a lot of confusing acronyms, what it all means is that the Fibrotex package protects against a variety of modern IR and radar sensors, as well as many others. A tank with these packages would benefit because one of the main factors of tank combat is not being spotted in the first place. While the IR and radar signatures are not completely removed from the tank, it would take more effort to spot one with the Fibrotex mounted as well as make acquisition with weaponry tougher. Another thing to note is that the IR protection is much more prevalent than the radar protection with these systems, as they require more addons to meaningfully reduce the radar signature. Beyond all of those benefits the package also works as generic camouflaging as it covers certain areas of the tank and helps it blend in with surroundings.

How this would affect gameplay:

As I said in the last section, this camouflage is intended to reduce the IR signature, and radar signature to a degree. In War Thunder, this would mean having to switch between the sight modes to spot the target, as relying purely on thermals would prove ineffective in many aspects. Another factor is that certain areas of the tank such as tracks, exhaust, and anywhere lacking camouflage would still appear on thermal sights and have enough contrast to spot somewhat easily. Something that may worry some players is whether or not this addon would affect the physical protection of the tanks which use them, but as I said earlier they are intended for reducing signatures of the tank and provide little to no additional protection. The Merkava Mk.3 and Mk.4 would also be good tanks to mount balance-wise as they are larger than many contemporary tanks and would still have areas which could give away the tank on thermal sights.

Pictures

Fibrotex with an Urban/Gray digital scheme

This sideshot gives a nice view of the pattern of the desert scheme (on a Mk.3B as well!)

A Chilean Leopard 2A4CHL seen mounting Fibrotex, as well as an extra package meant to further reduce the radar signature of the tank

Another Chilean Leopard, but this one is a Leopard 1 seen with a different scheme

Thanks for reading my suggestion! I am reposting this one from the old forum as it was accepted shortly before the forums transfered, so I figured I could move it here.

Sources

2018-2019 Israel Defense Directory, page 110

https://ftp.idu.ac.id/wp-content/uploads/ebook/ip/BUKU INDUSTRI PERTAHANAN/israel defense directory 2018 2019 by Israel ministry of defense (z-lib.org).pdf

Source for new Mk.3 images

以色列梅卡瓦主战坦克部队全部换装新型伪装服_高清图集_新浪网

Sources for Mk.3 and Mk.4 images

Below The Turret Ring: Merkava 4 with Fibrotex camouflage system

以色列主战坦克沙漠隐身，不靠涂装靠几块布条，这是真正高科技_梅卡瓦

Fibrotex site. This is the original source for the image of the Urban Merkava Mk.4 with Fibrotex, but it was removed later.

https://fibrotex-tech.com/

La Infantería de Marina de Chile compra redes de mimetismo de Fibrotex

[Chilean_Thunder]

I support this, it could be a new way to implement a new mechanic to the game, like a module that can be installed, also it would be a good way to counter helicopters or planes or anything that uses infrared

[Merkko]

+2, That’ll be a game changing mechanic. I hope to see it being implemented as a modification over existing Merkavas, but knowing Gaijin it’ll probably be rank 7 premium or squadron vehicle when the rank 8 is going to be added.

[T_reaper_01]

I’m sorry but oh hell no. This is thermal camouflage. I’m already doing bug reports right now because Gaijin screwed up the thermals after La Royale and it’s hard as hell to see the vehicles as it is now. Everything is all gray and very little white anymore, maybe the tracks and engine like you said. Before there was much more white all over.

This is a problem. Because we don’t want it to be more difficult, it’s bad enough facing biased Russia every damn game and now can hardly see them. And you all want to make it even more difficult all the time? Are you crazy? Wth is wrong with you people? Gaijin messes up something every update, there’s multiple bugs right now they aren’t even fixing, making the game more difficult than it should be, for nations that already have it tough losing to Russia so much. And you want to make even worse, just to add something new to the game? I just don’t understand some of you. How about focus on getting Gaijin to correct the messed up stuff they already did, that’s complicating the game, instead of trying to add to the difficulty. I understand you’re speaking of Israel, but you know it’ll become available for everybody. And thermals won’t even matter then. Pretty much like right now with the bug. Which is highly frustrating at top tier. You can’t even see a tank beside a house, because now they’re both the same gray color. Which is ridiculous and not at all right. There’s no way the houses and rocks and ground is the same heat as the hot metal on tanks from the engine heat etc. But that’s what’s happening now. And you want to make it permanently messed up to where thermals are no more. This is ridiculous. And it’s about as modern as it could be. It’s probably a little too soon for that. I’m all for being creative and having ideas, but you’re messing with messing up the gameplay and I’m sure Gaijin will be all for it. Thanks a lot 👍

[mytipcreamin]

You won’t have to worry about Fibrotex making Russian bias worse as this post is for the Merkavas :D

Thermal sights at the battle ratings which these modifications would be present at are more than capable of detecting the contrast between the the environment and the tracks/exhaust of the tanks that would mount camouflage like this.

Regarding the issue you are referring to, yes some parts of the tank can be a similar temperature to the surrounding environment, which causes it to look the same color as the background. Many tanks also already employ many features which aim to reduce thermal signature, or reduce the thermal transfer to other parts of the tank.

Abrams and T-72 thermal signatures

As you can see, the turrets are almost the same tone as the background through the thermal sight

And at the end of the day, there’s always the trusty day channel of the sight which is immune to the effects of these packages.

[T_reaper_01]

Ok, but unfortunately in the game it’s still not currently correct, after La Royale update. Before the vehicles were much brighter overall and especially now, the gun barrels should be showing up white after them being hot from shooting but it never happens, just a bunch of gray all over. At times it’s near impossible to see something, and that just is not correct. That’s the purpose of thermal camo. And much of these vehicles we have in game would not have thermal camo as it’s more modern, plus it’s not even a thing in the game yet so all vehicles should be showing up more white. Especially more areas that the engine heat would radiate around more area than it is and highlight more of the tank. This same but happened back in March, everything was gray. So we made bug reports and they reversed it in 2 days. For some reason they’re not seeing the problem this time and leaving it as is. The same exact problem.

And I understand you’re speaking on behalf of the Merkava, but we know full well Gaijin will decide to implement it overall so Russia can join in, and then we’ve got the entire game having thermal camo and will be able to see even less than with this “bug”. Maybe they actually changed thermals this time on purpose but didn’t include it in the changelog. We’ve been back and forth with the bug moderators and one actually is passing it through to the developers after about 3 weeks, but not sure exactly what the deal is. It took a while for them to understand there is a problem. Unlike in March they saw it right away.

Anyway I understand your excitement for this possibility, I just think it would be spread to all the other nations and would just make the game even more difficult to play, as it’s already hard to see things with this bug, and that camo would replicate this problem. Or even worse depends on how good they make the camo. Thermals are often very important at top tier for many of us. And the past month has really been frustrating for me trying to use basically useless thermals. But I do understand your passion. I was one of the ones who pushed hard and had a hand in recommending the camo nets that they implemented like on the premium Leo months ago. Was hoping they’d make it as like a modification for all vehicles or purchasable for us to put where we want to. I just liked the looks of it. But they stopped at just adding it on one premium tank and I guess quit with the idea. So I know what’s it like to want something added. I just really like the benefit of thermals and it’s been really frustrating with it as is lately, so I definitely don’t want more of it or even worse.

[mytipcreamin]

@T_reaper_01

Before the vehicles were much brighter overall and especially now, the gun barrels should be showing up white after them being hot from shooting but it never happens, just a bunch of gray all over.

Cannons can heat up and appear warmer on thermal sights. I will provide examples for a small, medium, and large cannon:

M3A3 Bradley

Cannon after spawning, no rounds fired

Cannon after firing 3 rounds

HSTV-L

Cannon after spawning, no rounds fired

Cannon after firing 3 rounds

Merkava Mk.4M

Cannon after spawning, no rounds fired

Cannon after firing 3 rounds

As for the issue with heat transfer, I do agree that it could be a little better. One issue though is that some of the components require time to heat, rather than spawning heated. I will use the M3 Bradley’s tracks as an example as it is one of the tanks that drives around in the test area.

Heat Transfer to Bradley's tracks

Tracks before driving around (how they appear when tank is idling)

Tracks after driving a little bit or continuing to drive (as you can see they are more noticeable)

As for the other thing, I think that it’d be unfair to only give one nation access to a certain feature. I would hope that other nations could get access to similar technologies as I know there are other companies which provide similar products. You can also negate the effects of these special camouflages by turning the thermal sight off. Through the day sight you will be able to see the target quite easily. Another thing is that the coverage of these packages are not perfect on any tank. There will always be spots which cannot be covered (tracks, optics, opening of gun barrel, etc) and will be visible through thermal sights. Tanks like the T-90M (which supposedly mounts camo similar to Fibrotex) would also see issues with areas being removed after ERA usage as many of the pads are mounted to the ERA.

I understand the hesitation towards something like this, but the Merkava Mk.4 for example would see a higher BR with the camouflage, and only face vehicles which had sensors capable of still detecting its vulnerable components. Another thing to consider is that sights would likely be adjusted if something like IR/Radar camouflages were to be added to War Thunder. No need to worry now, however, as there is much time before something like this is added. :D

[T_reaper_01]

I see your pictures here of the gun barrels and yes that is an example of how it should be, plus more of the tank should be as well. But for some reason, and I’m not sure why, but I’m not seeing this when I play now. I never see these white barrels anymore, in game or otherwise. The only white I’m seeing is the tracks and the rear where the engine is exactly. Nothing on the sides, the turret, the barrel or the front. I’m not sure if it matters, but I play on Ps4. I say I don’t think this matters because I’ve got fellow players who have been complaining along with me about the thermals, and they play on PC, so it seems to be cross platform. I had thought maybe it was a certain platform but doesn’t appear so. And they’re saying the same thing, it was totally better and different before La Royale update. They’ve made bug reports as well. So I’m not sure how you’re experiencing the white gun barrels as you’re showing here, as it should be, when many of us aren’t? I would think bugs or mechanics affects everyone. Rather strange. But yes if it were this way it would be an improvement to what it was before. But, I also believe more of the vehicle bodies itself should show more heat around it. In addition to helicopters and jets, they’re completely gray in the sky now although I’ve noticed it being inconsistent, one day it might show some heat signature but then back to seeing gray again, off and on. And personally I prefer thermals, obviously it’s much easier to spot enemies, that’s the purpose of it. And much of my speaking is coming from using top tier vehicles with Gen 2 thermals, so it should be better than what it now is. Just say we’re in the fields or forest, I can’t tell the tanks from the trees, or buildings for that matter. It’s no good. But it seems some players, enemies, aren’t affected by it as much, as they sometimes spot me right away very quickly. 🤷

[BasherBenDawg8]

+1 hell yeah, might help that tiny bit with hiding the MBT that’s a size of a house.

[Chilean_Thunder]

I leave a photo that I found recently where you can completely see the Fibrotex mobile camouflage on the Leopard 1V, and another photo with great quality