Oh, you are correct, sorry. will edit previous message, thank you.
In general though, there are several documents that are in effect at the same time, many read only one and thus miss certain rules and/or clarifications.
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It’s all good. I do recognize this topic is getting pretty heated as mighty has stated and I apologize for that.
I just have serious issues with how little input is being done with these number when current documents would state intent as a factor.
Many of the unsporting conduct rules do state intent, not all though.
And i want to repeat my previous point here again since it was many messages ago:
So i think a lot of players here think its only killing and assume it was those accidental team kills that got them their punishments when more likely than not it was one of the other categories (or even perhaps a combination) that landed them the punishment.
"So now you expect us to trust some TK number metric to judge team kills fairly?So now you expect us to trust some TK number metric to judge team kills fairly?
The thing is, this “automated system” that deals with tk’s has been around for years, kicking players from game, doling out temporary bans of short terms.
What has actually changed is that Gaijin, for the very first time, has published the names and numbers of tk “offenders”. That’s all that has actually changed. And we have no idea if this number is more or less than in the past or usual amount, as we have nothing to compare it to. Granted, it is safe to assume, that this may be a “one off” or has gotten to the point that Gaijin felt the need to put this out there so the players know what is going on. It is very common for players to assume that since they witness ONE thing out of the ordinary, that it emcompasses the entire game . . . which is rarely the case. Sure, there are well known and widespread bugs most of us are aware of, but to be fair, that number is not nearly as vast as some would make out.
Has team killing gotten worse of late? . . . my guess is prolly so, may be a LOT worse to get what we have going on atm. All the modern weaponry being bandied about like candy at Halloween just means the odds of “incidental” tk’s has gone up. A lot of the newer players are much younger than in the past. I am not disparaging them and I don’t mind, but we have to admit . . . they seem a LOT more lax and careless in their game play, toxicity and troll like behavior . . . just how it is. Players of ALL ages, when making their accts, click “I Agree” and never bother to read the EULA/TOS or Rules . . . very common.
But attitudes like the guy that says “Oh I shoot my Squadmates at the end of the match because it’s funny” just shows a callused and lax attitude towards the game & it’s Rules . . . so, it makes things harder on everyone.
As for the moderators, of course we need them . . . without them you get total chaos and people leaving the game left & right.
This topic is kind of difficult & unique, on the one hand, being “objective” a “TK is a TK” is technically correct, that is how the game and the tk system view it as a computer program cannot determine “intent”. And on the other hand, “subjectively” ofc there are exceptions . . . "I tk’d to defend myself or another team mate from . . a team killer, while morally that may be ok, technically . . . it still counts against a player doing that. Again, intent cannot be determined in such cases, so by the Rules . . it’s not ok. Besides that, it places the player as “judge, jury & executioner” . . . not a very good idea.
Is it a perfect system?? . . . nah . . no way, are there perhaps better ways to do it? . . . prolly, but almost ALL of them would require a VAST staff of PAID people to do a lot of replay watching and that is not cost effective . . . this is a big point.
One last thing I think is often overlooked, but still important, Gaijin looks at all of us as “customers” first, players secondly . . and as a business, they kind of have to . . so having only 1 guy perma banned shows they care about us in at least one way . . . lol, there should prolly be a LOT more. Anyway, to me it comes down to the oldest approach to the game I know . . . “Just shoot the red guys”
I very much have to beg to differ, I cannot say it happens all the time, but I’ve fired a R-60, R-73 in sim, or air rb, at a range of around 1 mile or less, and a team mate will either come screaming in with his afterburner on, (so my 1v1 becomes a 2v1 because of greedy team mates), which they’ll be chasing the enemy, who has either flared, or turned their after burner off, and then my team mate is the hottest target, which my if aam then hits. Not avoidable, I cannot control team mates.
Another instance: in air sim, a few guys on my team got annoyed because I was killing most of the enemy team / bombing. So they brought up their disgust in chat, which I largely ignored, then they began to try and fly near the bases as I bombed it, or try to intercept my aams to make it hit them. Or would straight up crash into me. (Seems to be US pilots more than anything for some odd reason). What am I supposed to do in this case? Say I have a 75% booster on for 3 missions? Like cmon, I’m not going to quit that match willingly if I’m doing excellently and I have a booster going.
Add ontop the fact of the SL everyone pays out is ridiculous, but since people are getting harsher punishments, maybe the SL loss should be decreased now?
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Ypu can always, you know, actually start punishing people more harshly for intentional and unprovoked TK, with special attention paid to rammers.
But hey, that would be against the “if you defend yourself, you’re as bad as an attacker” anti-moral policy, so not going to happen I guess. Again, this logic sounds awfully familiar…
Something has changed I got 1 hour ban, and I don’t remember that happening in the last few years and I haven’t changed my attitude towards TK in the meantime.
Wait, going afk is a punishment? Well. I guess I better tell life to screw off.
I think more of these should include “intent” to them.
I also believe, there should be an added one to team killing in regards to: team mates who don’t disclose enemy locations, while knowing they are there, just to have you, or another team mate advance, then die, then they guy who didn’t disclose info, pulls out and gets a free kill.
Like this ^ aggravates me more than a Pe-8 bomb killing me, because that is just hilarious to see my tank go flying.
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Key word: Intentionally , meaning players that do this systematically to try to lose the match (usually in an attempt to punish other players they feel have wronged them) will get punished. again, it’s the repeated behaviour that get punished.
That is exactly what this ban wave was about though?
I posted links to my favourite teamkiller’s videos. I reported him around 12 times myself via replays. Or kaybe 20, can’t remember. Yes, they are a few months old, but I find it hilarious he teamkilled dozens upon dozens of people and received no punishment whatsoever. Maybe he “behaved” in the last few weeks, but I doubt all the people he maliciously treated like floral feel OK with it.
Anyway, will keep you updated once he posts another video, hopefully soon and with more ramming than ever.
BTW it’s even funnier when he rams somebody and the person he rammed is treated as a teamkiller. Hope his victims got properly punished by The System.
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Quite possible that they may have changed ban lengths/sanctions here recently, but as those have never been made public for the simple fact exploiters would merely take advantage of the knowledge, seems likely and not out of the ordinary. Though, I am pretty sure such things don’t happen too often and aren’t done lightly. As I have seen posted up a few times, most of it seems to signal that Gaijin is just letting the player base know, it’s time to tighten up a bit. Majority of players are pretty cool, mind their own business and just play to have fun. But it still doesn’t take but a few to rock the boat and make things worse for everyone . . . C’est la Vie
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they never banned for TK, at least I never got one for almost 10 years now
They have, I have known a couple who got a timeout over it.
And how many team members did they killed?
More than one or two in a short time
I agree somehting has changed. I’ve had ten years of nothing but “people complained” messages but never an actual ban for TKing. And even though there may have been rules from day one there was no actual enforcement besides the automated system and that created the culture of defensive TKs and destroying TKers. The community had no faith in the system fixing the problem, so they took matter into their own hands. The thing that’s recently changed is now mods are getting more involved which is why so many players got banned. The difference is like flipping a switch from laissez-faire to authoritarian/dictatorship overnight. It was overkill IMO and instead could’ve been handled with a splash page similar to the one I just got after logging in today stating "hey no teamkilling, we are cracking down on it now) as most of these bans were from a cultural trend in the game (similar to pressing T-4-6’ing after someone crashes on takeoff). Oh well, lesson learned and now back to playing and no TKing no matter the situation (except for missiles that have a mind of their own).
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No idea how many they had done. I just remember they were horsing around and got slapped with it after shooting a squad mate down right before the tickets bled off. Was their only TK that match and they were kicked and had a short ban applied. Was about 2018 or so
Can I ask how this is not an illegal action? In Air RB being the last player flying around your base can make you invincible as the base aa takes out any aircraft that gets with 6km. As the last player, they should land and quit but that is not usually the case. Some players do this even when they have no advantage on tickets and just do it to extend a losing match for themselves. Could this not be seen as passive behavior as they are not trying to fight? It really is a frustrating situation that sadly happens a little too often.
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Because it isn’t? There isn’t a single rule which states that you can’t fly around your airfield and use your AA to take advantage of it. I’m not giving any opinion on it since everybody is free to think and feel however they want about it, but it isn’t something that breaches in-game rules.
Please avoid further discussion about this since it goes off-topic.
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That was kind of my point, they have, but it was pretty rare, just as with this “wave”, but it does and has happened. Again, this is nothing “new” just far more public. It seems to be a warning, a “shot across the bow” as was mentioned somewhere early, to let players know . . a lot less likely to be tolerated in the future. Once more, without knowing for sure how the inner workings actually are, all we know for sure now is that Gaijin is willing to go public & publish team killers names, same as with cheaters.
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