F4 turn faster than mirage 2000 in practice, what is this world?

How does this fat goofy jet can turn better than a delta wing?

amazing thread 10/10

trying to go back to topic, in combat you probably found yourself in either a position favorable to the phantom, or the speed differential allowed him to get on your six


I tested this at both 600kmh witch is a good speed for the mirage to turn. I had to manny exemples that make me think its not only skill issue. On paper it has 1s faster turn speed than the f4. On a purely physical explaination, how cant a delta wing turn faster with this big air contact surface?

In 2 circles guns only, mirage worser by few degrees on optimal speeds

Mirage main here. This should never happen. Most likely you are speeding fast and your opponents knows when to slow down for a better turn rate. From my experience one of the most important thing for the mirage is to slow down when needed, requiring your knowledge on when to slow down, also your skill of how to efficiently slow down.

Edit: the recent change on mirage buffed its energy retention turning on high speed. So it requires more manual adjustment of speed.

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Mirage have better turn rate on high speed

But, that makes mirage to have bigger circle, so F-4 will be inside of circle and cut it

Yeah that’s the point, you need to manually slow down now, and if you do just that, mirage actually slow down faster than before. The ceiling has been raised, but it takes additional skill.


If you will not to 1 circle - that high chance to die from F-4.

Mirage always need to play by 1 circle, because of sustained turn rate, that on same level as updated F-111.

Go test out yourself, the sustain turn of mirage this patch is better than the JAS39. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it is what it is, I tested with my friend.
Edit: which is why I think it was a huge huge buff for the mirage.

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I dont think that mirage have more than 18 deg/s

In DCS it’s 23 degree per sec for reference. It’s actually one of the very best in 4th gen. In WT it should not be much different.

In DCS it made by razbam, they just overbuffed it, it’s fine for them.

Razbam has collaboration with AdA (French air force) and throughout the years there’re many changes, none of which involve flight performance. I’d say it’s pretty reliable.

When plane makes 180 during a dogfight - it cant be stated as good.