I have not played it since it was moved to 10.0. Fighting R-60MK carriers would be a pita.
But I remember getting kills from 3km or more sometimes. 2.5km was the usual max range I tried to keep for them
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I guess I will not be playing the R2Y for a while
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Holy yap, WHAT is this argument even about?
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I mean I love the sparrow buff but I think before it was a little more realistic (at least pre 7F) models.
These missiles had a horrid record in Vietnam and in early models, which was partly pilot error but also the missiles sucked.
Ingame right now is good but meh I still think this buff should have only come to 7F and later
Though taking away that, I love the F-4C even more and I finally spaded the F3H-2 after years
And if you had paid attention, you would know that the graph you are talking about isn’t even the one I replied to. I replied to your cl13 vs f3h graph. Not your first one with the mig-17 vs f3h.
If you want to act arrogant, at least get your stuff right.
Bank angle is not even used in the equation I provided. The bank angle is implicit in the g load of the turn, which would be ±84.85º for this case. The formula is still correct, and WTRTI shows almost the same exact value.
I did it that way because often people complain that WTRTI would not be reliable (which I disagree with because the error is irrelevant for this context, like 0.1 to 0.2 deg/s error at most from WTRTI)
It happens often. It also helps to keep energy in case you get 3rd partied and need to defend at the same time you juggle 2+ people in a furball. Going 1C usually leaves you more exposed to others, but also closer to your target if he can’t force the 2C on you.
Only at high speeds and that will last for a couple seconds, very easy to counter because it bleeds so much speed. If the CL-13 is also very fast and compressing at over 800kph where the f3h has the instantaneous turn advantage, all he needs to do is go vertical, if you don’t disengage quickly after that, you probably cant even run away before being tickled with a bunch of OP .50 cal rounds. We can do a duel if you want.
It is competitive I agree. But sustained turn rate is another way of saying energy retention, which is a very important flight characteristic even if you don’t want to rate fight yourself. Although rate fighting is not irrelevant at all. You’re oversimplifying how furballs and dogfights work.
Although many people don’t understand rate fighting and just turn into the enemy regardless of circumstance. Also, it’s very rare to see proper counter 2C maneuvers in AirRB, even in late game 1v1’s.
Agree
I think you lost the context of our convo.
You replied to him:
Where I confronted that claim
Then your reply, which is now hidden for whatever reason, you might have been abrasive but I don’t think the post deserved to be hidden.
In that reply, IIRC you explained that this was not your really belief but doubled down that the f3h could still win in the 1C fight.
You also posted a graph with the F3H vs CL-13B max instantaneous turn rate, and I told you that the graph was wrong because the CL-13B values in the 600-800kph region was wrong and provided proof that the CL-13B could do 32deg/s at 700kph
Also, your new test it seems to me that you forgot to use flaps on the CL-13B at higher speed, while you use them in the F3H
You can use combat flaps from more or less 750kph by tapping them On and Off to archieve more pull without fully deploying them and breaking them, and from ±650kph you can just leave them deployed.
Btw, In full controls, both jets can go around 34deg/s of instantaneous turn, but the CL-13B keeps more energy as usual. I know you are talking instructor only, just saying.
Unless you want to cut into a CL-13B that is flying at like 800kph+ (where he can still avoid you by energy trapping you in a vertical maneuver due to the F3H insane bleed rate).
We can do a duel where I go 1C in the first turn at speed just to give you the chance and then we’ll see if you can keep up, or even run away.
The Bible is a quicker read than this
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I think this jet will have the F-14 IRIAF treatment eventually and get moved to 9.7 or something. People just don’t know or don’t bother to defend from those missiles at 9.0
To be fair at that Br you wont get a warning in most jets unless you see the launch.
Evading is harder than many think as well.
I’m just glad that the average F3H player is of average skill at best.
A whole horde still does curb stomp.
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Apologies, I had it set to Ground RB on the Soviet tech tree, plus remembering it was 9.7 back when it was introduced (and staying there for far too long) before being moved up, I didn’t question it having a different BR in ground/air. (Though having an even lower BR for ground, as an attacker is almost worse).
It is indeed now 10.3, which is only 0.3 higher for a vastly better missile (not to mention the countermeasures and all the air-to-ground ordinance). Yay compression/minor nations penalty.
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You should see the missile icon and trail just fine unless the spotting system was acting weird
Although it is understandable for new players to not know how these missiles work at that BR
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The problem are belly stabbing unspotted F3Hs.
The ones coming in while you dogfight 3 others etc.
In those circumstances no spotting is happening.
Unlike Matra 530 for example the missile is not burning very long either.
And the missile is rather resistant to defeating it kinematically these days assuming it was fired on a reasonable trajectory or far enough away and is tracking.
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Fortunately at least the less smart all aspect users will throw them from far in a headon so you can just counter missile it with your own or shoot rockets
The ones that fire it closer are annoying though, cause a few times it’ll just go through the rockets but still hit you though since you can’t move enough in time
The missile doesn’t maneuver off the rail, and when it does it is quite sluggish, you should have no problem avoiding them at close range.
The main issue is getting hit from an unspotted F3H and its missile while flying straight without any warning.
I see people climbing at like 500-600kph, dont do that folks! You’ll usually have the same climb rate or better if you maintain higher speeds while keeping energy for evading missiles or even unexpected BnZ passes early game from the fastest jets
i mean also unlike the 530, it doesnt have a drag chute slowing it down
I meant sluggish because it barely turns.
The maximum g force it can pull is nothing special, but they massively reduced lift induced drag so it can keep turning without losing as much speed as other missiles do.
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It can keep turning, but that doesn’t matter because it already lost the target. Let’s not act like these missiles aren’t easy to outmaneuver with your average 8.0-9.0 jet
They turn almost like a maverick AGM missile lol, but much faster.
By the way I’m not defending that the F3H should stay at 9.0
Honestly the VERY visible change in competitiveness of a specific plane brought about by simply changing the performance of one of it’s missiles is just the latest proof that once missiles come into play, planes should have a dynamic br based on their loadout.
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