F-5C Flares need to be removed. It is FICTIONAL

[POLYDEUCES]

@DiamondLag

Because that is what i was talking about. I made remarks about other things, but that was the one thing i was talking about.

I can’t quite follow. Why did you reply to me then?

[DiamondLag]

Because you made a remark about a missile in a response to me. Which is the bit i responded to. Also comment about implying F-1/T-2 relly on their missiles and cant get in close.

Why that was the response to me talking about the “work” That is flying a flareless jet i dont entirely get.

[POLYDEUCES]

• The comment was not about the missile itself looking at it in a vacuum.
• I was also not saying that T-2/F-1 or even F-104 could never ever under no circumstance get close to anything that flies.
• I made that point myself as well.

I was talking about anything but missiels when I replied to you since you seemed focused on missiles entirely. What a surprise.
You overlook the finer points made or implied in a sentence most of the time which leads to pointless back and forth going around in a cricle leading nowhere.

[DiamondLag]

Yes, and i looked at the points you made and i thought some of the points mischaracterized the difference, or ability of missiles in question and in some comments about the jet in question.

As such i commented on them.

@POLYDEUCES

I was talking about anything but missiels when I replied to you since you seemed focused on missiles entirely. What a surprise

Well looking at my first response to you, you were explicitly using missiles as part of your argumentation.

And looking at what i responded to:

@POLYDEUCES

…slightly worse missiles.
Here the AIM-9E is just as useful in many situations as the AIM-9P can be.
Especially sicne the F-5 can get close and personal where T-2 and F-1 have to rely on their missiles.

I looked at, thought some of the points were silly and as such commented on them.

Edit:

@POLYDEUCES

You overlook the finer points made or implied in a sentence most of the time which leads to pointless back and forth going around in a cricle leading nowhere.

No i explicitly responded to what were “finer points” About the Aim-9P/J and 9E in responses you made to me saying

Spoiler

@DiamondLag

@POLYDEUCES

Here the AIM-9E is just as useful in many situations as the AIM-9P can be.

Actually 9Ps are way more useful here as you can use them closer to a enemy while actually expecting to hit a manouvering and otherwise busy target.

@POLYDEUCES

slightly worse missiles.

I dont know how one can call the 9E, “slightly worse” than the P/J. Its a way larger upgrade than what the 9E was to the 9B. And id say that was the case before the FoV buff to P/J

[POLYDEUCES]

Here as in here on the F-5C compared to AIM-9P on T-2.
The bits about the missiles in the first post were made to highlight what F-5C has beyond missiles i.e. why AIM-9E is good enough on it.
Damn man.
We are still going in a circle and you still put words in my mouth or are not reading properly.

[DiamondLag]

Yep.

And as part of that you mentioned missiles which i thought is a mischaracterization of differences.

Idk what words i could be putting into your mouth, but to be very clear:

I responded to a point you used to build your overall message. I did not really care about the overall message.

[POLYDEUCES]

What a waste of time.

[DiamondLag]

I know.

Idk why the upgrade 9P/J represents had to be downplayed so hard (edit: hard as in it was contested even tho one could own the fact without any consequence to the overall conclusion)

[POLYDEUCES]

Generally never was as I’ve been telling you.
Do we really need to keep circling around a point I made which you put out of context?

[DiamondLag]

Okay then if you never made that claim ive completely missunderstood

Sorry

Insight:

Spoiler

Words i considered to downplay or otherwise mischaracterize the differences.

@POLYDEUCES

…and slightly worse missiles.
Here the AIM-9E is just as useful in many situations as the AIM-9P can be.

@POLYDEUCES

The 9P is lovely but if you manage your angle etc. chances are the enemy will either flare the missile anyway no matter which one it is or you set up a scenario in which it wont matter wether you are firing a 9E or 9P.
Alll in all there wont be to many situations where the 9P is absolutely necessary while guaranteeing a high hit probability still.

@POLYDEUCES

Sure 9P is a straight upgrade but if the enemy is not afk as you put it they will flare the missile or attempt to dodge it.

@POLYDEUCES

AIM–9E just needs to be handled differently to a AIM-9P.
Both can achieve the same kill oftentimes just by waiting for a diffreent launch angle, seperation, speed or whatever else.

Hopefully that gives some insight as most of these were the responses to me implying that the 9P/J offered significant uplifts allowing for way more oppertunities that the 9E

[AlvisWisla]

T-2 CAN pull more AOA, doesn’t mean you should pull more AOA.
If you limit your AOA to that of an F-5C you perform similarly while still out accelerating it; there’s a good reason I never dogfought genuine threats in the F-5A for China.
The chaff pod historical report is less than half a year old, and it takes time to develop unique countermeasures that no one is going to use.

[POLYDEUCES]

I see what you mean but but there was always the scope of Br range, countermeasures most efficient use possible and the like.
For F-5 missiles are a sidearm at that Br especially as long as it has countermeasures itself.
In a clean comparison the 9P is of course as you said the superior missile.
Until Mirage 2000, MiG-29 and F-16 there were few planes F-5E could not dominate in a full uptier.
While carrying only 2 AIM-9J. 10.7 is a blessing for the late F-5s of course.

That is why I kept saying I was not looking at 9E/P comared to each other in a vacuum without the aircraft they are being mounted on or the Br range to consider.

[POLYDEUCES]

F-5 would slap T-2 in a rate fight I’m sure. You can pull hard enough in T-2 but even with it’s superior thrust it’s aerodynamics are not designed for the job as F-5s aerodynamics are.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

There is real differences vetween 9E and 9J flare rejection,… those have been datamined, calculated, known and even bug reported.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

9P’s, not J’s,… there is also a difference in those

[AlvisWisla]

Good thing War Thunder players don’t rate fight.
I had to remind myself how much F-5A bled speed so I test flew my Chinese one, and it’s just as bleedy as T-2.

@Cpt_Bel_V P [specifically P1] is just export J.

[DiamondLag]

@POLYDEUCES

For F-5 missiles are a sidearm at that Br especially as long as it has countermeasures itself.

Yeah the 9Es of the 5C are indeed very secondary.

@POLYDEUCES

That is why I kept saying I was not looking at 9E/P comared to each other in a vacuum without the aircraft they are being mounted on or the Br range to consider.

Yeah i can sorta see where you were comming from if i take the responses as if they were allways packaged with the plane. Tho that was not very obvious to me at the very least

[DiamondLag]

Unless there are some differences not noted, they are copy-paste based on the statcard and how ive been able to use them.

Idk if there are datamine differences between them, if there are i have not noticed (edit: in gameplay)

[POLYDEUCES]

From personal experience I’d only want to dogfight a F-5 even a C in a T-2/F-1if the situation favours me.

[SinisterIsRandom]

≠ here you don’t need to put =/= F-5C is a beauty.