add me in game, same nick as here
That isn’t a reasonable solution, if I wanted to play a hardcore flight sim I would play a flight sim, the big selling point of War Thunder is the casual setup, mouse aim is the intended way to play.
Whether it’s a bad flight model or a bad interaction with the instructor something is wrong with it and that needs fixing.
Rate speed is a very awkward metric to use as unless you are in simulator battles or using full real controls it is impossible to fight an even halfway decent rate fight.
Like I said, the issue is likely with the instructor limiting instant turn rate and AoA, so yes when you get into a sustained turn eventually the Block 15 becomes better, however that only applies for a sustained rate fight which is very rare for most players and doesn’t address the big issue with instant turn rate which is much more relevant to most situations, and just because the Block 15 if flown perfectly can still beat a MiG-29 has nothing to do with ignoring a bug in it’s flight model.
Yeah I fully agree, but for now that’s what you gotta deal with
I’m used to it, granted is not completely perfect but I just try to keep my speed, if I go lower I turn less, and higher I turn a bit more.
If you can’t do it with mouse aim controls maybe you’ll find it easier to use simplified controls (with mouse)
Sure, I was just answering to the dude who was saying the block15 is hopeless against mig29’s
Hello
You posted a source that was flagged as it has no proof of declassification.
Please note all modern sources suspected to possibly be under 30 years or classified / export restricted can only be posted with clear proof of declassification.
If you can share that proof, its fine to reupload the source. If not, please do not share such sources.
2 Likes
Show the limiter you’re talking about, you keep saying it has some limitation but I can show you exactly how it exceeds the limitations set by its’ FLCS in real life and allow it advantages that it should not have lol
About E-M graph F-16 hard overperorm at low speeds in terms rate and radius.
of course the E-M graphs is different than in game, no plane in game perform like IRL, the point of showing them is that the two planes should at least be equal in performance not hugely different as they are
because this is how it is. with similar pilots and same scenario 1v1 F-16ADF has no way of winning against mig-29 and F-16A. is not even close. while the F-16A completley wins against mig-29. that’s the issue. if you tell me “well in battle it can defeat it” well duh, i can kill a mig-29 in a prop if the enemy is stupid enough. when evaluating vehicle capabilities you have to approach it with a scientific method, not “i do well in it so is fine”. that means dogshit
You can’t expect realistic digital limitations on aircraft when there aren’t realistic mechanical or human limitations.
The while point of the 9G limiter for the F-16 was to prevent the airframe from damaging itself and to stop the pilot killing himself, until mechanical strain and true blackouts are added the F-16 shouldn’t receive a digital G limit.
There is no G limiter on the F-16 in war thunder, nor is there an AoA limiter, nor is there some sort of mechanic that is causing it to compress…
Quite literally, below a certain airspeed it exceeds any / all AoA capability it would realistically have even if the FLCS was relaxed. It can pull AoA and do maneuvers that would cause it to depart from controlled flight as though there isn’t an issue.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/dsHHyr4cQZw2
Gaijin has stated they plan on revising the FM when they go to introduce the FLCS in the future, the reason they will introduce it on the F-16, but for now it will continue to overperform.
Why do you keep saying the F-16 is over performing? All other jets in game are able to pull much harder than they can in real life. But you want to hold the F-16 to realistic standards because it isn’t in the Russian tree?
I personally don’t enjoy flying the 16 ADF because of how ridiculously exaggerated it locks up at speed. Doesn’t help that the mig29 gets much better SARH missiles.
1 Like
I quite literally shared proof it overperforms with you, what do you mean “why do you keep saying the F-16 is over performing?”
Generally, jets in-game pull realistic limits up to their structural limit, in the case of the F-16 it simply cannot because it would quite literally become unstable and depart from controlled flight doing so. It’s not an issue of being able to pull a certain “G”, it is an issue of remaining in control of the aircraft while maneuvering. Per the documents in my report, any amount of excessive yaw or roll while pitching 30 degrees of AoA should cause rapid and sudden pitch departure (loss of controlled flight). Yet in-game it can readily exceed 40+ degrees of AoA even with asymmetrical loads and high yaw / roll rates.
Quite literally, it can sustain 12G at high speeds if you want to using full real. The “limitations” you guys keep mentioning are consistent with aircraft using mouse aim across the board. Its’ not been given any special treatment in comparison to Russian vehicles.
On that topic, the F-14A/B are fantastic now as they actioned on my report about their instability and AoA, now in full real the F-14s have much better nose authority and control. This was how it was originally, but some people got it nerfed thinking it was not accurate… the documents I found proved otherwise. Either way, the F-14 flight model has been fantastic because the aircraft is fantastic and was not arbitrarily nerfed on release due to some “bias”.
İts simple.
He claims F-16 is overperforming cause irl f-16 flcs is limiting plane to positive 9g only and you can by-pass that in this game by using absurd trim settings.
On the other hand he’s the one who’s claiming F-16 doesnt have any sort of flcs limit in this game so according to this claim it should not be overperforming, yet again it somehow still limited to 9g in basic flight settings. (Unless you reach very low amount of fuel)
As usual @MiG_23M doesnt surprise me when it comes to doing double standarts.
İn old forum he claimed Mig29 is not top dog in air rb while many countless people and argument showed exactly the opposite.
4 Likes
That’s not true though?
Except the Mig29 doesn’t require you to use full-real controls to get the maximum performance out of it, so by definition the F-16 is getting special treatment?
Don’t think anyone has mentioned the F-14, so I’m not sure how that’s relevant. The F-14 doesn’t have a gimped flight model, so therefore the F-16 can’t be gimped by proxy? What sort of logic is that?
2 Likes
That’s not entirely true. The g limit listed in the manual is not the g at which the wings fall off because aircraft are designed with a factor of safety (typically 1.5). So Gaijin model this by making the wing rip g in game 1.5 X the limit listed in the manual.
However most aircraft are able to pull more g than the limit stated in the manual. So a side effect of Gaijin modelling wing ripping correctly is that pilots in War Thunder pull more g than in real life. This is because real pilots have to follow the manual, while War Thunder pilots can’t.
Using the Tornado as an example: it is limited to 7.5 in the manual, but according to the tactics manual it is capable of pulling in excess of 9g if the pilot just pulls back on the stick. Therefore it would be pulling more g in game than a real pilot would (because they have to observe the 7.5g limit), but it’s not incorrect that it can do that.
There are likely some aircraft which can pull more g than real life. But as a general rule an aircraft being aerodynamically capable of exceeding it’s g limit is not incorrect.
Quite easy to figure out, If a F-16 can pull 12G it will be able to fight against Mig29, which would be “UNACCEPTABLE”
The MiG-29 is significantly hampered without the use of full real controls also, and currently still has incorrect maximum allowable AoA when maneuvering at low airspeeds unlike the F-16 which exceeds its’ real life limit.
I mentioned the F-14, its’ relevant because earlier people were claiming that Russian vehicles get special treatment. The F-14 is proof that isn’t the case, as it was a recent addition also. Its’ flight model in comparison to the F-16 is also proof.
1 Like
If you look at the report I have repeatedly linked at this point, you will see GAIJIN are the ones saying the FLCS is not modeled. The F-16 is not limited in any way in war thunder and can exceed realistic allowable AoA and FLIGHT CONTROL LIMITS that would otherwise cause it to depart from controlled flight in real life. It’s overperforming in war thunder because the real aircraft (even without an FLCS) would quite literally be incapable of the maneuvers the F-16 in war thunder can pull.
But go ahead, continue to say I said something which I did not.
1 Like
Mig-29 exceed that limit aswell, so what’s the issue there? No Plane in wt perform as they should irl, i have no idea why you keep bitching about this
Cause again, if you were to make F-16 full realistic, pls do the same with all other jets, would be funny to see mig-29 HMS being nerfed to irl standards and having It locked below mach1 when carrying the additional fuel tank. I won’t even talk of all the other issues, the other planes’ have irl that infame are not considered, like the mig-9 being incapable to shoot at all, the mig-21 not being capable to pull High AoA cause that would put the Plane in a spin
1 Like