F-15A is in such a weird place

Yeah… again I think the implementation of the ER led to a domino effect that messed a lot of things up for this game balance wise.

6v6 was announced… but it’s optional (which means a lot of people will not know about it) and 6v6 is the best case scenario for that matchmaker. The option lets you opt in to a mode which the match sizes vary from 6v6… to 12v12. Knowing Gaijin, the latter will be more common than the former. Not much better than the current 16v16.

AIM7M and AIM9L vs R-27R/T and R-73 at a br that does not see the ER and AMRAAM/Adder is the core of what I have been advocating for for a while now.

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Now what you have said is what you have to be posting about.

Rather gather everyone to be loud and vocal about the 6v6 becoming mandatory than optional.

I think THAT is what you are truly looking for and you will have WAY more support to fixing your issue which is obviously a lot of other peoples issue as well rather than pushing this loadout adjustment which as you see some people disagree with.

Now personally I am and will always be for 1:1 realism, and I cannot give two flying effs about balance, for simulation and immersion is what is the most fun to me.

Some might shrug me off and say go play dcs blah blah blah but I have been overseas for a year and had been playing WT on my mac which worked out really well and had a blast while away. And now I am back in the states and will not be playing anymore sadly.

But best of luck and I wish you the best, Good discussion.

The problem isn’t to know if the F-15A should be downed in BR from YOUR PoV,… but if it’s should based on the AVERAGE PoV thanks to Results it have.

Yet, checking on what can be done about AVERAGE PoV:
https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/f_15a

For LAST MONTH, Rated players on this website ended up with an average of 1.88 Air-Air Kill-Death ratio, for RB modes.

You’re own ratio is 0.438, and you’re trying to pull out your POV, from an aircraft you don’t know how to use.

i’m not talking of your stats to shame you, or to make you feel bad,…
i’m talking of your stats, mine, and the average(which both us are in the one average stat given by the third website), to make you self aware that your in-game experience DOES NOT represent the average game experience.

And that the average Game experience, is the one that should be rated in both BR and Balancing decision.

YET, the F-15A shows good statistics on the AVERAGE, and doesn’t require go down.

My problem with the F-15 is that the way it is played in this game so viamently contrasts the role it should really fill. Never in a real war have planes hugged the ground until they merged in giant furballs where only IR missiles were of real use. This game has departed from its mission of keeping realistic battles somewhat realistic and the F-15A is the worst symptom of that. If it lost the 9M, moved down, gained a counterpart in a lower SU-27, and multipathing was removed, it would play in a way much closer to reality. If it was at 12.0, it would be at a BR where comparable aircraft with comparable weapons already exist (MIG29, F16). I frankly dont give a damn how much it gets downtiered. It could be at 20.0 for all i care as long as it doesnt face enemies with R-27ERs and its sparrows actually worked below low earth orbit.

You want the F-15A to be good, make it’s radar actually realistic and just remove multipath and the altitude limit from the AIM-7 series, boom, it now has an overall good kit that is not hindered by it’s only BVR implement being vastly inferior to it’s counterparts.

Heck this wont just help the F-15A too, given the AIM-7 series is prolific, a lot of aircraft would perform vastly better.

Please add spacing in your text,… somewhat indigest to read.

Yet:

You might need some litterature about vietnam war, and Isrealii wars ^^"
And the current one of Ukraine aswell,…

Huh, no,… again the F-15 is perfectly fine in this game currently, even more considering we do not have the F-15C MSIP, which could use AIM-120.

Again as i told you, that is your OWN POV of one aircraft you expected to do better in,… but to do better you have to learn things in-game and outside, and not just rely on the aircraft to do the job for you.

But Gaijin do

Sparrows works when you know when to use it,…

R-27’s are contemporary missiles, and so you don’t want realism?

Multipathing is something many claim to be a wrong thing,… yet, we do not have Electronic counter measure in game,… somehow it is impossible to fly kn altitude today.

Maybe the game should start watching how maps are created and how players tends to go to the simpliest Head-on fight,…

Spreading evenly 16 players on 2 airfields per team (8per fields), airfields being in each corner of maps, maybe we finally would have some interesting Tactical gameplay.

In which both Su-27 or F-15 can rule over.

I do not trust in the reduced amount of players,… beacuse the first one to have shot his missiles the right order would simply have all kills and the credits.

Even more when FOX-3’s wpuld became available.

Something I’ve reccomended countless times at this point. Add the SIM EC maps to ARB, and limit the amount of players that can spawn at each airfield and spawn more objectives at the start of the match.

Matches would be vastly more dynamic.

To that same end, more maps with lots of terrain features like the one with the giant rock pillars is greatly needed, even if they are more fantasy than reality. Game balance dictates good map design for good gameplay even if it requires us to stretch reality a bit in that regard.

I would love to see some form of ECM to arrive, same with ARMs but both seem to be a distant option for gaijin currently.

To add more about the average POV
https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/su_27

AA KD of 2.55 which is not that much away from F-15A despite is lack of Range (AIM-7) and lack of missiles (8vs10)

Meanwhile:
https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/mirage_4000
AA KD of 2.21 → clearly beneficiates from the Close range/Furball META,… but this is not always the case, since fighting HMD aircraft clearly gives an edge to it.

BUT SOMEHOW:
https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/mirage_2000_5f
AA KD of 1.07 only

https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/f_16c_block_50
AA KD of 1.01 only

To honest those kill ratios are probably about average for most players these days.

If anyone wonders why the F-15 didn’t go up in BR just point to this thread.

Well i agree 12.3 is made for people that have no clue how to play the F-15A.
But as it is for pretty all aircraft that are Russian or USA, made.

But are those results currently enough to put the F-15A in lower BR?

Obviously, i do not think that F-15A at 12.0 is justified in any means.

Aim9m aam3 are the best weapon in the game.
F15 got the best performance

My text was typed in the exact manner that yours was…

You talking about the ones that happened in the 1960s when radar missiles were in their infancy? when I’m talking about an aircraft with weapons from the 1980s with much more reliable models? seriously?

the one that is being fought by sides with disporportionate weaponry, amounts of aircraft, etc? In real war, there are considerations of logistics and resources as well as of weaponry and technology. We do not have to worry about these in War Thunder.

This point makes no sense it’s insane. I’m advocating for this aircraft to:
A. have a loadout that is more historical (late 1970s/early 1980s)
B. sit at a BR where aircraft already exist that have similar weapons and flight characteristics

It has nothing to do with my own skill. Rather, it has everything to do with an aircraft that is supposed to be a late 1970s/early 1980s aircraft, yet without the loadouts to reflect that. Also facing enemies that have weapons from the 1990s. (R-27ER)

Not when the devs have added a cheap cop-out of a mechanic where any missile can be defeated simply by flying low.

Actually, R-27 missiles, while being introduced at the same time frame as the Sparrow, do not possess the inverse-monopulse seeker that gives the Sparrow and the Skyflash the ability to filter out ground clutter so well.

So, as you say,

The F-15 would simply fit better into the game if it was at the same BR as its contemporaries, the F-16A, MIG-29A, and SU-27S (without the R-27ER).

To fit in with these aircraft, the F-15A should lose the AIM-9M, which is the distinguishing factor that makes it 12.3 as of right now.

You take no issue with the F-16A ADF at 12.0 with just as good (if not better) flight performance and the same weaponry, save for two extra sparrows which in my opinion does not warrant an increase in BR.

As it shouldn’t have.

I talked about every wars implying jets,… that is true for every wars since WWII

Historical match up doesn’t exist in game, it’s balanced through results, therefore your results count as a metric.

And again, F-15 is not similar in any kind to those

Go bug report those missiles then,… there is nothing the game will do for your current proposition.

So you’re saying korean war era jets with guns only operate on the same weapons employment premise as modern jets with advanced missiles? When one can shoot a target only within a mile and the other can shoot a target within 100? lmfao.

If things are balanced purely based off results, then why does the Tornado ADV not have the AIM-9M and AIM-120? Why does your beloved F-104S not have AIM-9M and AIM-120? Clearly loadouts are determined by historical factors first and not balance.

It really is. In fact, I can reliably beat F-15s in a guns only fight with both the F-16A and the MIG-29, so if anything the F-15A is worse.

Nothing wrong with the R-27. The sparrow is the only thing that needs to be changed, but the multipathing is implemented for “balance reasons”, so a bug report will do nothing. Please educate yourself.