I have been using the “tacview” a lot lately and its absolutely funny how dumb the phoenixes behave… Their radar often goes from track back to search mode and looks all the way to the right and the missile also starts turning to the right XD… I wasnt sure they could break this any further but somehow they sure did
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can you link a clip, i can’t use tacview since im on console it’s extremely buggy
Here they appear to be ok and on the second pic a few moments later they all point their radar to the right and start turning lol
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OFC later A models got them
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Great video show how the F14 was just ahead of its time
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Yeah! I did not expect it to be so technical and in depth.
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One of my major complaints about using the Phoenix is that players can just shoot off a missile and the Phoenix will go after that instead, or alternatively it goes dumb. As far as I know RADAR does not behave like that, it should know that’s not the plane. Maybe they’ll adress it once other ARH missiles drop, but that’s been said before.
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You are correct. Missile seekers passive and active do not go after missiles easily and is actually quite improbable.
IR seekers seek infrared emissions consistent with exhaust & afterburning engines of aircraft that burn on a different IR wavelength to that of a small missile. Seeker logic such as the missiles we are using in game in the upper tiers are programmed to completely ignore these emissions and seek those only consistent with exhaust emissions of aircraft. Flares are designed to burn to near exact of the aircraft they are equipped on.
GJ modelled IR missiles tracking other IR missiles as a Hollywood “wouldn’t it be cool” feature that is unrealistic. Like shooting missiles head on at each other as seen commonly in game.
As for SARH missiles. If a target is close enough to another object such as another missile or aircraft that is caught in the illumination of the launching aircraft’s illuminator, the missile may go for one or the other.
As for the Aim54. It has its own radar and highly advanced fire control that can differentiate the between a rapidly accelerating small missile and a much slower closure rate and larger radar return of a fighter. The Aim54 can calculate and determine range unlike CW illuminators used by aircraft guiding SARHS.
The Aim54 is underperforming and its tracking in any phase of flight whether it be supported by the AWG9 or its own radar should be second to none in accuracy at moment. It should be the hardest missile to defeat other than being limited by its weight and slower acceleration compared to other missiles.
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yes it doesnt even matter if you keep the aircraft highlited on tws, the phoenix will do its own thing… I did some testing with a friend and the results were stunning… First of all, the radar can only spot another F14 at ~60 miles or less. Even though this probably isnt a problem with the current air rb setup, it goes to show how bad of a job they have made with the AWG-9.
Apart from that, we both fired at eachother at the same time and cranked. Both missiles went after each other… Then we tried again without cranking and sometimes the missiles went for eachother while others they tracked. It appeared to be random. There are just so many things that need to go right for the missile to work that its not even worth the effort.
By the way, our tests were conducted at an altitude of 30-35k feet with a speed of mach1+. The missiles lofted a little bit since we were firing at 50 miles from eachother and they never reached their supposed top speed gaijin has given them of mach 4.3. The fastest I saw a phoenix go was mach 4.03 if im not mistaken and that was only for a second before beeing violently slowed down by what can only be described as an invisible drag chute being deployed after the motor stops burning…
In comparision a 27ER has actually a higher effective range than the phoenix currently, on top of being an incredibely hard missile to out maneuver or defend against in general. Couple that with all the gimmick features it enjoys and it pretty much leaves the ER users uncontentested… In a match, by the time an f14 is on missile launch parameters to have somewhat ok chance of hitting anything, the ER is already at 5 miles from the Tomcat… Good luck dodging that…
Its not even funny at this point, I can see why they didnt want to add tacview compatibility all these years. The sensor view was their biggest mistake. There is no hiding things anymore.
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That’s not entirely true. The Tornado tactics manual even mentions situations where it recommends firing a Sidewinder to improve success in missile evasion. Should still be in the Tornado thread.
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It’s too excesive in game
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A common Hollywood movie belief. Hopefully you will see that and not fall for it.
IR seekers do not seek every single infrared emission source there is.
Infrared is all around you. Everything emits infrared radiation on earth. Exhaust from fighter jets have a distinct emission as opposed to small motors from missiles that burn for a short moment.
IR seekers going back to the aim9P and especially today are designed to target wavelengths on the IR spectrum specific to exhaust emitted from the immense radiation caused by jet engines. They cannot be too sensitive or they will track anything like reflections of sunlight, such on clouds, ground, water and even snow covered mountain tops. Small IR missiles are going to be ignored like a majority of other things that emit IR.
You have no idea how immense the IR signature is of an after-burning jet as opposed to a small little rocket with less then 30 seconds of burn time.
“Just launch a missile at another missile, the missile will somehow decide to ignore the slower moving, gigantic after-burning, hotter object and go for this little rocket that hasn’t burned longer than a minute. It’s better than flares ”
That is something seen in movies like Top Gun.
Missiles do not emit the same distinct IR radiation as after-burning jet engines.
They are too small and don’t even stay burning long enough to ever come close to the same amount of heat and brightness emitted from aircraft exhaust.
It’s well established in Hollywood, Yes.
Additionally, this is another common belief not rooted in a true understanding of how infrared radiation works.
Infrared radiation generated from the intense heat of afterburning jet engines does not only come out exhaust. It does not just come out the back of an aircraft.
Just because it’s not “visible” to the naked eye does not mean it’s not generating an intense IR signature that cannot be seen from all aspects.
Infrared emitted from jet engines radiates throughout the entire fuselage and outward. EVEN the entire aircraft skin is generating a high infrared signature as constant friction of air flow heats the surface.
An aircraft is far less aerodynamic with a larger mass and surface area than a tiny, sleek arrow that is an IR missile.
A missile generates very little Infared signature from its high aerodynamics, short time in flight and extremely short burning, tiny motor compared to the vastly larger aircraft that is already preheated due to the friction generated by the longer flight duration as well as the intense heat radiating throughout by its jet engines.
Even in a head on, an afterburning jetfighter going near the speed of sound is going to generate a much larger IR signature than a sidewinder with its tiny motor that will not even burn long enough to ever equate to the aircrafts IR signature.
A short range IR missile does not generate enough infrared signature to efficiently DECOY another missile away from the gigantic, intense IR signature of an afterburning jet fighter at any considerable distance even if both are in a head on.
The missile will not just magically go for a drastically smaller, lower IR signature just because it’s an IR signature. Thats not how seeker logic works and if that was the case all IR missiles would decoy to anything with a flame or heat.
Countermeasure flares are designed to burn at the exact IR wavelengths/frequencies of the aircraft emissions they are defending. Advanced seekers will ignore sudden and drastic changes to the spectrum that appear in its FOV lower and even brighter signatures on the spectrum.
Modern seekers are designed to seek one specific frequency pattern consistent with aircraft engines (preferably jet engines) and nothing else.
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From what i know, SARH missiles guide via a specific radar wavelength which is programmed by the launching aircraft. So before the Aim-54 is active, its still being guided by the Host radar. Therefore another missile fired at it should not make it go stupid.
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This is 100% British theory on American weapon systems and never proven ever.
Additionally, nothing is said that the opponent’s missile will track your own missile to any reliable degree. You cannot tell what the missile is locking, only that its locking something by tone, it literally just a last-ditch hope and pray for the best situation.
It "may just" intercept the opponents missile.
Yes, it MAY just intercept the missile provided you are at close enough in range happen to see the missile beforehand know its IR, generate a tone and fire an IR missile in return. Which is highly unlikely.
Can I get the full context of this please. I would like to dissect it.