For the past two weeks this thread has been mocking the idea of French players being better at all.
I’m not saying that there’s not the case at all, what I’m doing is applying correct statistical analysis to the case. And that includes comparing the correct populations. What you’ve suggested is part of what caused the replication crisis in psychology
Maybe the points you’ve been making is correct, but to me it’s arguing over the finer details when the main topic is whether or not balance decisions regarding the Rafale should be looked at in a vacuum comparing its performance to other same BR aircraft or if it should account for playerbase performance.
In an ideal world it should account for the playerbase performance, that much is true. But to make that possible every tree would need to have the exact same plane as a point of comparison. But using data from a different population will just create the exact same problem again, just to a different degree. Could be weaker, could be stronger, we wouldn’t know
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I understand your point @DirectSupport but overall gaijin’s strategy has been to purely look at statistics to balance vehicles. That explains the 8.0 char 25t, or the 8.3 Turm III.
Overall, the rafale as a top tier vehicle can’t get any decompression since gaijin is allergic to raising the top BRs, so it’s fair to say, even for rafale fans like me, that the many buffs that the rafale (and MICA) have gotten is especially strange.
For example, while the Rafale is far from the only plane that has dominated its BR, it’s quite to note that it has gotten several buffs introduce, to a degree not see on the other powercrept vehicles. It’s actually because of the lack of buffs that they ended up losing their top spot.
In the other hand, contrary to some people here, I would not put it on the players making the report the burden of having had the rafale gotten those buffs, as they only want to make their favorite vehicles more realistic, but I do think those reports should only be actionned when necessary, especially for those that fundamentally change a plane performance.
For example, the different buffs and nerf of the flight model are nice, but also relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of top tier balance since flight model is not what wins games. However the removal of gimbal limits for the MICA (which I obviously abuse), was absolutely not necessary and is one buff that is not much mentioned but I strongly believe is one of the most broken buff that the rafale has had (and the M2K).
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title of these following stats: the reality behind mediocrity
those stats are “All the time” and not only last month:
you can see there that every BR over 12.0 shows the french players to be winning most their games
now, showing last month:
shows similar results at every BR from 12.0 and over.
if it was only Rafale, the 12.0 BR’s (basically Mirage F.1’s) and 12.3/12.7 (Mirage 2000C’s - no MICA)
and you dare thinking that Rafale is the only parameter?
such a mediocre point of view it is, to split apart the truth, in order to be discriminatory against french players.
the real tragedy, is people like you giving their opinions on matters they have no clue about.
It’s almost as if the mirages are cracked too or something.
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Lets have a look at french aircraft in the last few years
This year we’ve been dealing with rafale, the most handheld jet in war thunder’s existence
Last year we had the Mirage 2000-5F with it’s MICAs and magic 2s, we also had the F-16AM, which was the best F-16 in the game for a period
The year before that, France recieved the Mirage 2000C before everyone else recieved a 4th gen airframe, plus the first 4th gen event vehicle, allowing experienced players from other nations to buff up winrates, and while being the underdog, was also top 3 airframes in the game.
So for the last 3 years, France has an advantage ranging from mild (M2K-CS5) to substantial (F-16AM & M2K-5) and now severe (Rafale).
If you genuinely believe it’s the pilots alone causing the high winrates then you are something beyond delusional, especially considering the fact that 90% of the people giving the Rafale it’s monstrous winrate are Air RB veterans migrating from other trees, and the amount of metawhoring for the Rafale has led to a significant spike in player count from the supposedly ‘inferior’ rest of the nations, yet are leading to high winrates still.
The whole ‘french players are better’ myth is debunked the millisecond you look at another factor besides winrates, and analyse what causes that winrate in the first place
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My taiwanese Mirage has a 60% win rate and nearly a 3 K/D, that’s not flown by french pilots is it
@DirectSupport one thing that I could try to get a better comparison between the EFT & Rafale is comparing the stats achieved by Players who have a comparable number of games played in the Rafale & FGR.4 (specifically that one because it’s often matched together, to account for the matchmaker). That should give us more comparable performance statistics between the two, and should be doable with at least somewhat reasonable effort, compared to what we were discussing before.
Maybe I’ll procrastinate unpacking my boxes have some time left on the weekend to try that
1- short maps - forcing mid/short gameplay : those have been asked by players willing to jump directly into action remember? the BF/COD side of the community, that know shit about air combat.
2- short minds - rushing mid-map for the godly called “efficient grind” : which was true in 2020, but not anymore since 2023
3- the lack of basic knowledge - basically what 80% do in this game : playing without knowing what they’re really doing in any game they play.
4- Nation experience - French TT is one of top three Tech Tree to be hard to play from BR1.0 to 12.0 giving much more experience on how to deal with a problematic threat. (the other two would certainly be: Japan and UK - note though that i’ve never played Chinese/Israel TT,… but both are mostly filled with Russian/European or US equipement, modified or not)
5- weaponnary at top tier, and only there - yes MICA-EM in short/mid range is an optimized weapon for the proposed gameplay in WT - but remember that this MICA-EM is still largely underperforming - Gaijin have been going easy on everyone.
6- Raw Rafale FM - i’ve seen many people crying on it but it’s still an aircraft that is extremely known for it’s maneuvrability and handling - the current overperforming stats of Rafale occurs at altitudes that mostly (99.5%) don’t go to in game.
7- Veterancy - you brought it up, and i agree that France is not the go to nations of newbies - allowing french defenders to say that those newbies are bringing all your monthly stats down in every other mained nations (USA/Germany/UK/Russia/China)
as the perfect exemple from FeetPics game:
1st game of this video:
Listing of players kills and deaths with aircraft name:
Spoiler
FeetPics - 165 kills / 35 deaths - Rafale
muygoisai - 100 kills / 86 deaths - Rafale
TimeT0fail86301 - 34 kills / 107 deaths - F-15E
(i don’t type chinese, sorry)
OmegaWolfDog@psn - 47kills / 89 deaths - F/A-18C late (USA)
PhilMyCollins - 71kills / 134 deaths - F-18C (Sweden/Finland)
I JavierSM I@live - 161kills / 103 deaths - Rafale
fluffyduck2268@live - 135kills / 197 deaths - Rafale
LET5 get DRUNK@live - 356kills / 424deaths - F-15E
dowblekill - 147kills / 61 deaths - JAS-39C UK (and got 3 KD on Typhoon FGR4)
Neo2987 - 124kills / 124 deaths - Typhoon FGR4
SealClub13a - 188kills / 63 deaths - Rafale
NomercyBro - 29kills / 56 deaths - F/A-18C Late
PORKY37779 - 29kills / 35 deaths - F/A-18C MLU 2 (Finland/Sweden)
DrearyMars38@live - 58kills / 75 deaths - Rafale
TheBiGothGirl - 60kills / 77 deaths - F-2000A
Out of 15 accounted players(i still don’t type chinese)(6 Rafale accounted out of 7) there was:
1/15 “Elite” player (1/6 Rafale) - KD over 5 (being FeetPics itself)
2/15 “Good” players (2/6 Rafale) - KD over 3
2/15 “OK” players (1/6 Rafale) - KD over 1
1/15 “On-Par” player - KD at 1 exactly
9/15 “Sub-Par” players (2/6 Rafales) - KD under 1
so if we consider that you’re “good” at over 3Kd, it’s 50-50% Newbs/Veterans for Rafale players.
Since the Veterancy is about the Experience those players have, and the impact on the Rafale results (KD / WR / … whatever other results criteria you need), it is certainly demonstrating that it’s the average ability of piloted french aircraft that will go up.
even more if you consider in the same time that ratios of newbies/Veteran for other nations are about:
USA - 80-20% [Newbies-Veteran%]
Germany - 75-25%
Russia - 85-15%
UK - 65-35%
Japan - 60-40%
Sweden - 60-40%
China - 75-25%
Israel - 55-45% (since you have to reach a certain nation rank before starting the Israelian TT)
so,… yes 50-50% for France is obviously going to make a big jump in our results.
do your maths,… if you take account for veterancy, Rafale is actually balanced with only 2% difference with top aircrafts from 14.0/14.3 - result wise
Source?
I’m just one guy but lets see how my Rafale stats compare to my British Typhoon stats here
Rafale:
Winrate: 76.2%, K/D: 5.7, Kills/Battle: 2.3, Total games: 227
Typhoon:
Winrate: 68.6%, K/D: 2.7, Kills/Battle: 1.5, Total games: 210
Conclusion? Playing the Rafale allows me to tap into the French Dimension, giving me the combined power and knowledge of all French aces in history like the avatar state. This grants me superhuman decision making skills to most skillfully use the underpowered MICA against the overpowered range of the AIM-120C.
Or the Rafale is just really good idk…
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Same for me
Typhoon 50% winrate 1.423 KD
Rafale 64% winrate 1.638 KD
Its just that as soon as I hover my mouse over the French flag, a surge of brilliance floods my mind — the whispers of Dassault, Guynemer, and Clostermann echoing like afterburners in my head. Flight physics, tactics, and elegance fuse into instinct. My hands move on their own, dancing across the controls with effortless precision. La Marseillaise starts blaring in the distance as I climb to the top of the leaderboard — a baguette-powered missile of destiny.
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Don’t insult my Battlefield like that most of the map in that game better than POS of maps gaijin made lol
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Then your reading comprehension truly is awful, because thats not what that says, and I’m not gonna bother continuing to waste my time arguing with someone who already admitted to intentionnaly arguing in bad faith 😂
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Also, having the exact same plane to compare across two trees does not mean both planes have the exact same matchmakers, which has been proven to be a major factor in vehicle performance earlier in this convo, so to “account for player skill” gaijin would have to throw out all datapoints where both vehicles didnt have the exact same matchmakers, or would just need to make every match a pure mixed battles setting.
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Most matches are mixed right now though, with how you get US copypasta vs US copypasta or RU vs RU copypasta and some minor nation cameos to either hardcarry or be spicy fodder.
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You stated:
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We should wait for the Rafale to start performing notable below par stat-wise compared to aircrafts at its BR (before it gets any further buffs)
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That it’s not exactly a stretch to imagine that if/when the AIM-120D is added, it’ll have meager performance relative to expectations and be utterly trash at HOBS and that MICA might very well be better than AIM-120D in WT
This taken in totality with previous comments in this thread and other threads highlighting the importance of HOBS capability, it isn’t exactly a leap of faith for me to get that sentiment from your post.
Rafale never fights Rafale. Not every nation ends up on both sides of Air RB mixed matchmaker.
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