Im the same. The cockpit sounds interesting, with the look through the body thing, and its cool in the VTOL, but Its overhyped. Its exceptionally good at SEAD, but average at everything else. The way some americans describe it, you’d think it was also able to find the cure for cancer, end world hunger and write poetry
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Man that thing can’t even supercruise, its top speed is mid, it ain’t very agile, and let’s not talk about its internal load. And its stealth isn’t even exceptional… I can’t believe Lockheed fumbled this hard
Yeah… its good nations are canceling their orders I think
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I mean there are certain criteria that increase stealthiness for a vehicle and the difference between a stealthy plane and a true stealth plane is that the stealth plane sacrifices other qualities in favor of stealth. Doesnt mean that its automatically the better vehicle but all known 6th gen programs seem to go as stealthy as possible so there must be something to it
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Yep, it might be good for usa (although I doubt it is) but it is a terrible omnirole aircraft so it doesn’t fit the need of most nations that acquired or will acquire it unlike eurocanards do
Yeah, Britain should have built the Harrier 3
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Yeah bro it’s so sad, it would’ve fit their doctrine better and would’ve sustained their air industry
Can’t they though ?
If Dassault is considered not worth leading the program then who ?
NEURON had all the steps except mass industrialization, which Dassault did anyway with the Rafale.
I also may remind you that the initial deal was quite tightly linked to the MGCS, on which Germany had the lead…
And for the 100th time Neuron is not comparable with FCAS in any way whatsoever.
And germany+spain have done nothing to change the initial deal its just Dassault going back on it to aquire as much workshare as possible against all previous agreements
it appears that US governements are so enclined to sell F-35’s to the whole world, that F-35’s are sold for like 3 quarters their real prices, and giving a lot of industrial compensation too.
but also adding commercial threats in balance.
But yeah,… Sure,… Rafale is “bad” - it just happenned to not be sold by US interests
they weren’t throwing Rafale at Turks because of Greece.
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They did not backtrack on the initial deal ? Do you know how FCAS is organized ?
Phase 1A and 1B were negociated, signed and completed, and now we are arriving at phase 2
It just so happens that you have to renegociate each time you start a new phase, and the more advanced the phase is, the touchier it gets, and the more complicated negociations become.
1A was basically the one signed in 2018, where everyone is handshaking and happy
1B is the initial development phase, where it already gets more complicated
Phase 2 is demonstrator and initial Industrialization, and that’s where the negociations are currently stuck.
Germany also came back on the initial KNDS arrangement on MGCS, by introducing Rheinmetal to the party, and i did not see any negative comment about that whole thing, so… don’t mind if we do i guess ? I would also remind you France had the lead on FCAS, and it is currently not possible to properly lead because Germany insisted Spain had to join and made that 33-66% unbalanced situation.
And germany agreed to leave the french workshare at the agreed 50% and splits only the german workshare with Rheinmetall. They didnt have Papperger barge in like he owned the place and demand 80% of the workshare.
Well maybe France should pay more to get more say but it doesnt seem like they want to (they cant)
Not to mention that MGCS was a kind offer anyway since Nexter was an absolute nothingburger compared to KMW and Rheinmetall
Dassault never asked for 80% and i genuinely have no idea where that piece of information comes from. Seems to run only in some random german news, nothing in France stating this.
They asked for 80% on the NGF though, sure, but it’s not the entire FCAS
Just like Airbus D&S is compared to Dassault in fighter jets manufacturing ? At least Nexter built its own MBT from start to finish, not to mention new tech such as CTA 40, Diamant, ASCALON, Pilar V
Oh so they only want 80% of the most profitable, highest prestige part of the program so the other 2 paying partners can divide 20% between them. How incredibly noble, cooperative and fair.
Goes to show that you had to add the second part of the sentence to omit the fact that Dassault is not the big company between the 2. You can add as many little nexter programs as you want that doesnt change the fact that Rheinmetall and KMW did absolutely not need them in any capacity whatsoever
Ah so being big is better than being competent, got it. Way to go
A plane that works would be better though, it’s a tool for war, not just some industrial prestige…
Might as well just buy F35s and let go of european industry with that kind of reasoning…
Thats the best you could come up with? Theres no evidence so far whatsoever that Dassault is competent at designing an aircraft that meets the agreed upon standards and if you believe the german MOD report then they might even completely miss the mark for 6th gen entirely. So far the only thing Dassault has been competent in is creating a plethora of public problems and insult potential partners (belgium)
I don’t know, all I see for now is a company that developped a 4.5th gen fighter alone and quite successfully, not the other one. Who gets the know-how do you think ?
You asked how France would build a fighter jet alone, and i gave you an answer, maybe not the one that convinced you but it is what it is.
Now let me ask : What would Germany do ? If they join tempest, would they even dare to ask for the workshare they asked from Dassault ? Would they do it alone starting from nothing ? Doable, but quite a lot of time wasted
Until you have to do any sort of SEAD work, where the F-35 is then required to get within 40km of a high power radar system.
This is why I’m not so convinced as to the place of the F-35 as the UK’s mainstay fighter either in the future or currently as our only carrier-borne fixed wing aircraft (particularly as to top it all off we’re using the B which has only got externally fitted NSM as a possibility).
Is the trade for stealth with just 4 missiles worth it compared to the flexibility a dedicated 4.5th generation aircraft has, as that jets built knowing its going to be seen, its about trying to blind the enemy and then trying to do your best to tussle with them.
Can you say the same of the F-35 with its unremarkable flight performance and focus on stealth?
(This is also what sets the F-22 apart from the competition, taking F-35 and fusing it with a more traditional approach).