Yeah but one can doubt his expertise when he says things like this.
He doesn’t work at the french public finances or MOD as far as i’m concerned
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And what has any of this to do with FCAS? Dassault would need to share IP yes but theyd still be the manufacturer and its not like Italy and the UK had to ask germany for permission to use their Tornados and EFs in lybia 2011 even when germany was not on board with the intervention.
True but he still works for a think tank with reputation and connections therefore i am more inclined to believe him than some forum rando
Neuron fits perfectly for FCAS and Rafale, Rafale + sized aircraft with a lot of internals armaments that will do EW and allow FCAS to only go with missiles in the bay.
I mean, when you have 2 differents radar, one line that currently is still closed (and will probably stay closed if that last longer) that does not look great just by that.
Talking about that, Airbus is absolutely not looking good with what they are doing, supposed leader of the drone program that is so great at it that they want to sell american loyal wingman to Germany (that none of all the proposed drones fits the criteria anyway as far as translation and understanding of some word goes, they used “fighter-bomber” if i remember well with a max payload of 4 gbu39 and the version they are going for is even less) instead of their “project” proposed in 2024 (which by the way has one of the worst use of the word of “beast mode” especially when you compare to China)
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FCAS means Future Combat Air System, it’s not a singular vehicle. Neuron (or rather it’s recentlly shown successor) fits perfectly in there.
Spoiler
Airbus should’ve stick to air buses…
…Enough internet for today, i’ll see myself out
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Great way to completely misunderstand the point made in the article. “Dassault’s reference to the Neuron project – which it led as architect – as a best practice and model for FCAS, I consider inconsistent. Neuron was an experiment, not an industrial project involving the distribution of multi-billion-euro production shares."
its not about capabilities of the drone, its about an experimental drone project not being the same leadership wise as a multibillion Euro industrial program.
Neuron is no longer an experiment, it will be part of rafale f5 but for now they did not change the name so it will be even more confusing if i try to make the difference everytime.
Neuron experiment is also considered by Trappier own words as “small drone”.
And what exactly has that to do with anything i just said? Its still not a comparable project in any way
Germany already blocked some exports that the UK had worked to achieve.
Considering the importance of these for the french industry, you can already see why this is a no-go, France didn’t take the trouble of making most of its weaponry ITAR-free to have the same thing with the germans
It’s a part of the project, at least for Dassault.
FCAS is a bit different in the sense that you can develop small bricks. The fighter is the biggest part of course, but the cloud, drones, missiles and datalinks are also part of the system. So developing these in advance never hurts
Export to countries germany might block will not matter for decades when it comes to a 6th gen fighter. The number of countries that can afford one is already miniscule outside of EU/Nato and the number of countries that germany would block that have enough money is virtually 0.
You still dont understand the article. Dassault tries to justify having a bigger role in FCAS as the lead by refering to the Neuron program. Thats a false equivalence since the programs are not comparable at all. Its not about capabilities, its about the fact that hogging 80% of the workforce in a small drone project is different to doing the same in the biggest european defence project in history
I gotta highlight this right here because way too many people forget that generations are very rough estimations of the advancement of aircrafts, if you really think about it the latest 4.5th gen fighters are as much if not more advanced than the early 5th gen fighters. If we want to be fair, planes like the latest Rafale and EFT can be considered 5th gen
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Im quite sure most here know that generations are not an exact science but more a rough estimate (or american MIC marketing terms). However the defining difference between 4th and 5th would be stealth and neither the EF nor the Rafale are stealth fighters. So yeah they check almost every “box” for 5th gen but without the most defining difference i dont think they could be considered 5th gen.
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Dassault Justifies it by knowing how to build a jet fighter’s airframe from start to finish. Airbus does not, since parts are built by BAE systems and Leonardo
Doubtful in a few decades
Yeah that’s the long term thinking we kind of forgot unfortunately. Fast profit, no long term.
But that is again not what Dassault is saying. They take the Neuron program as an example that they can deliver as the lead architect in a cooperative program.
Not necessarily, Stealth planes are also decades old at this point and every country that operates one is either NATO/EU or builds their own
People forget that too often I think… just look how some people here said Europe went from 4th to 6th gen and skipped 5th gen, that doesn’t make a lot of sense since a generation is a essentially a bunch of technologies more than a plane type.
I see what you mean here, but the whole word “stealth fighter” isn’t very well defined… stealth is an analogical variable, not a logical one, and there’s not really a value that separates stealth and non-stealth. For that, look at the so called 5th gen Su-57. As well, it depends on angle (look how the J-20 is mostly stealthy from the front) and radar frequency. So this whole thing is very blurry.
Which is why Rafale, Gripen E and Typhoon are considered Gen 4.5s. They do everything a 5th Gen can they just dont have stealth which does come with its trade-off advantages
Sure its not a well defined word but there are key elements to a stealth plane that the EF and the Rafale dont have. The J20 and SU57 might not be insanely stealthy when it comes to the shape of the plane but they both have internal weapons bays which the EF and Rafale lack. While a clean Rafale might be comparable to them as soon as weapons come into play that argument fades
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Fair thing I guess… but the problem of the gen 4.5 category is it makes it seem like gen 5 is absolutely superior to gen 4.5, which isn’t really the case
Indeed. Though it would still be nice to have actual criteria on stealth
Context is what matters imo.
Entering an area of heavy SAM. F-35 will of course do better than any 4.5.
But just providing CAS… well now the Gen 4.5s might be better.
Im very interested to see how the 5th gens will fair against CAPTOR-E when its fully operational, but in A2A much the same can be said for that as well.
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Yeah but ngl you can never make me like that thing
Probably the only fighter I don’t have any interest in