Eurofighter vs Rafale battlefield

[dedale_stargate]

You only came to the topic to ask for a nerf, without specifying in what way, what source you had to back it up or anything else.

Rafale is overperforming in some areas, i won’t deny it (post M1.5 acceleration, G overload) but is also missing features (MICA range, RCS, and plenty of AESA shenanigans, such as range or multibeam)

You also asked for EF nerfs while it is underperforming, especially in the radar and acceleration area. It could be buffed to make it on par with Rafale instead, as it should be

Seing as you only play US planes, it gives the very disturbing impression that you are trying to profit from the disagreements between EF and Rafales enjoyers to get them on par with obsolete US fighters instead (F14), which obviously shouldn’t be the case. And you did so without bringing any meaningful argument to the table.

Finally, 2 out of the ~ 15ish posts you made in the Rafale thread were flagged, which is not uncommon for anyone who doesn’t bring anything to a conversation, be it Rafale thread, EF thread (see Mulatu, well tbf, he bringed something to the conversation by accidentally buffing Brimstone, that one was gold ngl), or anywhere else really, except maybe off topic and R&R threads.

Let’s not try to justify this behavior with the “experiment” excuse, shall we ?

[MikeyPlayzonYT]

@dedale_stargate

You only came to the topic to ask for a nerf, without specifying in what way, what source you had to back it up or anything else.

I was being respectful and I was specifically talking about maneuvering for most of it.

@dedale_stargate

Rafale is overperforming in some areas, i won’t deny it (post M1.5 acceleration, G overload) but is also missing features (MICA range, RCS, and plenty of AESA shenanigans, such as range or multibeam)

And it should get that stuff. Not once did I allude that these planes shouldn’t be realistic. That’s what we should all want.

@dedale_stargate

You also asked for EF nerfs while it is underperforming, especially in the radar and acceleration area. It could be buffed to make it on par with Rafale instead, as it should be

1. I’m pretty sure the EFT is actually performing as it should now at low-alt acceleration ever since the changes to thrust. I could be wrong, though. I (again) did say I wasn’t there to deny they shouldn’t get fixes but rather to point out their overperformance.
   2.Lastly, the EFT shouldn’t be buffed to the (current) Rafale’s performance. Rather, in their current states, they should be equalized (not including fixes to integral parts of how the plane functions).

@dedale_stargate

Seing as you only play US planes, it gives the very disturbing impression that you are trying to profit from the disagreements between EF and Rafales enjoyers to get them on par with obsolete US fighters instead (F14), which obviously shouldn’t be the case. And you did so without bringing any meaningful argument to the table.

This whole part is just disingenuous. I did not mention anything US-related during this experiment, including the F-14. That’s an entirely different thing that says a lot more about your biases than my “impression”.

@dedale_stargate

Finally, 2 out of the ~ 15ish posts you made in the Rafale thread were flagged

And 0 were flagged in the EFT thread, which was my conclusion from my test.

@dedale_stargate

Let’s not try to justify this behavior with the “experiment” excuse, shall we ?

I don’t know what you’re trying to insinuate here. Looking at it at a surface level. Apparently I decided to randomly go into the EFT and Rafale thread at the same time, talking about the same things, with the same respectful manner just because… What? I was not disrespectful or derailing the topics, which would justify it as behaviour. I don’t know what you want to think was happening, but yes, it was intentional. You don’t do a study by mistake.

(By the way, talking about the Rafale or EFT is their respected threads is bringing something valid to the conversation and isn’t a valid reason to spam report anyone)

[AydanL44100]

Well there happens to be spam-reporting randoms in the rafale thread and not in the EFT thread, which kinda makes sense since the Rafale one is more active. Kinda sad, this flagging system really plagues the forum

[dedale_stargate]

@ItzMikeyzWRLD-psn

I was being respectful and I was specifically talking about maneuvering for most of it.

This is one of your first post in the Rafale thread :

One problem though, you never played either of those planes, be it EFT, Rafale or Gripen. Not off to a good start…

This is your first post in the EFT thread :

Spoiler

The Rafale post (flagged, but you can still see its content by looking for your nickname in the topic) was pretty much the same type of post. Quite honestly, i wouldn’t have blamed anyone from the EFT thread if they flagged it. It’s not disrespectful in anyway, but it’s just an attempt to get a strong reaction and make them look unreasonable.

@ItzMikeyzWRLD-psn

This whole part is just disingenuous. I did not mention anything US-related during this experiment, including the F-14. That’s an entirely different thing that says a lot more about your biases than my “impression”.

When someone goes around with very weird posts or takes, I usually like to check who i’m arguing with and if that person is arguing in good faith. May i remind you your forum posts and your “service records” are public. As for my biases, i have a ton of those. Evryone can see at a quick glance i’m a massive ouiaboo. However, i can recognize when something is unbalanced even if it goes against my interests (AASM hammer IR is one of those, or even Rafale’s insane G pull).

@ItzMikeyzWRLD-psn

I don’t know what you’re trying to insinuate here

I’m not insinuating anything, i state it very clearly :

@dedale_stargate

Seing as you only play US planes, it gives the very disturbing impression that you are trying to profit from the disagreements between EF and Rafales enjoyers to get them on par with obsolete US fighters instead (F14), which obviously shouldn’t be the case.

@ItzMikeyzWRLD-psn

I’m pretty sure the EFT is actually performing as it should now at low-alt acceleration ever since the changes to thrust. I could be wrong, though. I (again) did say I wasn’t there to deny they shouldn’t get fixes but rather to point out their overperformance.

EF still has incorrect supercruise speed according to available data.

Both of those planes should probably be placed at their own BR, 14.3 or .7, and yes they probably came in too early, as plenty other planes in the past (F14, F15E, Mig23 MLD and others), that’s pretty much all we can agree on.

Nerfing them for 3 months before Gaijin decides to add the next powercreep isn’t a solution however (unless by BR increase of course).

As for the flag system, yes it’s far from perfect, and yes, some people are abusing it. This however, isn’t one of those cases.

[AydanL44100]

imo it’s terrible that the flagging system hides messages, should call mods and said mods should be able to see who flagged. Hiding a problem doesn’t solve it, just adds more toxicity. As a discord mod I’m telling you the best way to deal with bad messages is to confront the guy directly and not through that terrible flagging system

[dedale_stargate]

yes i’m not in disagreement regarding this.

[MikeyPlayzonYT]

@dedale_stargate

This is one of your first post in the Rafale thread :

One problem though, you never played either of those planes, be it EFT, Rafale or Gripen. Not off to a good start…

This is your first post in the EFT thread :

Spoiler

The Rafale post (flagged, but you can still see its content by looking for your nickname in the topic) was pretty much the same type of post. Quite honestly, i wouldn’t have blamed anyone from the EFT thread if they flagged it. It’s not disrespectful in anyway, but it’s just an attempt to get a strong reaction and make them look unreasonable.

How is any of this not respectful to someone? Unless we’re considering the feelings of the Eurocanards, I’m not seeing the problem here. Also one is a meme I brought over from the double AMRAAM thread on the EFT (which people actually liked). I feel like you’re making this far overblown.

Also, this isn’t a part of my experiment. This is old.

@dedale_stargate

EF still has incorrect supercruise speed according to available data.

Both of those planes should probably be placed at their own BR, 14.3 or .7, and yes they probably came in too early, as plenty other planes in the past (F14, F15E, Mig23 MLD and others), that’s pretty much all we can agree on.

For the EFT, I thought you were talking about AB power. I’m aware of the supercruise and think it shoudl be actioned upon ASAP. Same with any other historical changes.

For the second harlf, Yes. This is what I’ve been saying. Just like those planes have caught nerfs vs their current versions, these 2 need some too. This was never a special case of “oh the darn Eurocanrds are beatin my Tomcat! Nerf them now!11!”

@dedale_stargate

Nerfing them for 3 months before Gaijin decides to add the next powercreep isn’t a solution however.

Given that the Superhornet, F-2A, and J-10B/C are slated to come in the next major update and almost certainly won’t be on the same level as the planes added 2 updates before them, I say it’s not a solution, but it does help.

@dedale_stargate

This however, isn’t one of those cases.

I beg to differ.

[DirectSupport]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[dedale_stargate]

@ItzMikeyzWRLD-psn

For the EFT, I thought you were talking about AB power. I’m aware of the supercruise and think it shoudl be actioned upon ASAP. Same with any other historical changes.

I think the core of the issue is right here.

You want historical fixes but nerfs at the same time. Both are uncompatible with each other however

EFT would just be straight up buffed in some areas, and Rafale would be in a “lose some, gain some” situation, making Rafale as busted as it is right now, but in a slightly different manner, and EFT even more of a menace

Note that i’m not against a BR increase for both to give breathing room to lower BRs however.

Also if you want to do an “experiment” and be the “judge”, you better have a solid case, and opening it with an incorrect claim (stating you play both EFT and Rafale while it’s not the case, as DirectSupport recalled) isn’t exactly stellar.

[MikeyPlayzonYT]

@dedale_stargate

You want historical fixes but nerfs at the same time. Both are uncompatible with each other however

How? Just because something is nerfed doesn’t mean it isn’t realistic.

[dedale_stargate]

It goes without saying that i was mentioning EFT and Rafale

[dedale_stargate]

EFT fix :

• better radar
• better dry thrust performance
• probably other stuff i’m missing as well

[dedale_stargate]

Rafale fix :

• Better radar (multibeam search, not limited to 90km)

• RCS and IR signature reduction

• Mica with reduced drag and not hard limited to 50km (increase of 60% on the theorical range, from 50 to 80)

• Lower amount of AAMs, from 8 to 6 on F3R variant only

• Lower acceleration at high supersonic speed (still the same at subsonic and low supersonic)

• reduced G overload

And you now find yourself with a Rafale that moves slightly worse than before, but is basically the eye of Sauron itself carrying what could be considered the best AAM in game, although in lower quantity. As i said earlier : lose some, gain some

[MikeyPlayzonYT]

So in the end, we agree.

[Morvran]

@dedale_stargate

RCS and IR signature reduction

Btw

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/Mw6lAG2hMhyj

[Morvran]

@dedale_stargate

probably other stuff i’m missing as well

The priority stuff at this time for me is this:

@Morvran_

• Fix the radar (or just give up and replace it with AESA)
• Fix the 9Ms (if we cant have HOBS missile, then the 9Ms should at least get decent lock ranges like they had IRL)
• Fix the FM (definetly some wierdness with thrust, it doesnt accelerate quite like it should and almost certainly rips about 6-8G lower than it should)
• Fix BOL (most run it pure chaff, and it being 1/4 the strength it should be sucks)
• DASS has issues
• PIRATE is virtually useless, might as well remove it
• Fix the Cockpit HUD, MFD and HMD (loads of misisng features and symbology)
• Fix the A2G (SAL only Brimstone 1s suck, at least make them 2s and there are multiple missing GBU options)

But the list is far far longer than that

[SpectreXXI]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Gunjob]

So which is your active account? Because;

Gaijin Terms of Service

3. ACCOUNT
3.4. The User shall not create multiple Accounts.

[SpectreXXI]

Comment deleted lmaooooo

[SpectreXXI]

My best guess, maybe next BR Changes would introduce another decompression for air, I agree that Rafale itself already become a 14.3/14.7 material, some early 4th Gen that don’t have Fox 3 really need some fresh air so they don’t get powercrept easily when got uptier, I miss the F-14B spamming Sparrow that got powercrept by F-14A IRIAF lol.