Eurofighter Typhoon (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion

[Flame2512]

None of the Eurofighter’s MAWS antennas are located in the wing tip pods. The wing tip pods hold the ECM, ESM, and towed decoys.

[DevilO6]

Yea, my brain works not.

[BagelIsMyWaifu]

there arent any direct sources, sources on the working of AMIDS (or Eurofighter subsystems in general) are incredibly rare.
But there are a bunch of development notes from the manufacturer of the MAWS about components in that band, including one of GEC Marconi announcing

Additionally, to meet the increasingly demanding needs of military radar and communication systems, a new GaAs production process commenced volume production in fiscal 1997, of devices operating in the 35 to 40GHz range

The timeline fits, the manufacturer fits, and most importantly, GEC Marconi has no other products that fit military radar with such a frequency range.

Additionally in 2005 BAE Systems (who bought up GEC Marconi) showed off this, a Ka band component this time specifically for seekers/radar

Its just that they never say what its for

[BBCRF]

this is fortune-telling on coffee grounds. For such an analysis, the exact characteristics of both systems are needed. Today’s electronic warfare systems have significantly complicated radar detection, as well as satellite guidance. If we talk about the RWR Su-35, it is capable of detecting low-frequency radars.

[Godvana]

@ILuvAnneHathaway

Yes, when opening the tab with Y you gotta click “cockpit” then on “more” and there will be an option to tune it down

which key do you use to get to the next page?

[Bugblox]

hold alt and click on “More”

[Godvana]

nothing happens when I hold alt, neither left or right

EDIT: Nvm, I had to bind Show Mouse Cursor

[Morvran]

You can also set direct keybinds for adjusting the HMD brightness

[Flame2512]

@MiG_23M

L band is certainly detectable and aircraft or systems looking to detect modern fighters will more than certainly be looking for these types of signals on RWR

Example of MAWS with L-Band
Example of RWR with L-Band detection

@MiG_23M

Additionally, the Eurofighter’s DASS system will be emitting large amounts of radiation likely in L-band that modern Flankers such as the Su-35 are specifically designed to pick up and hone-in on

Those links are all referring to IEEE L band (1 - 2 GHz). I suspect @F0x_Hunter was talking about NATO L band (40 - 60 GHz); as in the NATO system K band is next to L band, instead of at the opposite end of the spectrum.

I have no reliable information on what radar band Eurofighter’s MAWS operates in. Various websites claim the MAWS operates at 32–38 GHz, but I’ve not seen any particularly trustworthy sources to back that up. If true though that would put the MAWS in the upper end of NATO K band, which the vast majority of RWRs in game cannot detect.

@MiG_23M

I’m sure they have a reason for using PD based MAWS, maybe @Flame2512 has more knowledge of the development that led to that decision.

The brochure you linked gave a couple of advantages over passive systems:

• Ability to measure range to missile
• Ability to measure missile closing velocity
• Ability to accurately calculate the time to impact
• Ability to detect missiles even if their motor has burnt our and / or the missile has slowed down

I expect the all-weather detection capability is also be better than an IR / UV system.

@MiG_23M

Looking for information on the MAWS for the EFT, seems if it is active it should quite literally appear to be a constant ping on some people’s radars within a certain distance that a Typhoon is in the area.

The Brochure you linked does says that:

Low power and ECCM features protect the PVS2000 from both signal intercept and hostile jamming.

So it is possible that the MAWS is using some sort of LPI principles to at least reduce the range at which it can be detected, or reduce the likelihood of simpler RWR systems deeming it a threat that the pilot needs alerting too. However considering the the Tornado F.3 RWR was sensitive enough to detect Russian radar altimeters you are right that the MAWS can likely be detected by some RWRs, provided it operates in a frequency band covered by the RWR.

From the F.3 RWR emitters list:

[DirectSupport]

@Flame2512

So it is possible that the MAWS is using some sort of LPI principles to at least reduce the range at which it can be detected,

Not necessarily. The radar-based MAW antenna are just inherently low-power without necessarily trying to be low-power no? Compared to a radar it is not as powerful hence the limited detection ranges of missiles and from that, the limited detection ranges of the MAWS’ signature.

[Flame2512]

Also I should add that in game the Eurofighter’s MAWS currently acts as a UV MAWS, so get’s triggered by flares, random missiles flying away from you, and god knows what else.

If Gaijin actually model it as having the benefits of a PD MAWS then it would potentially be fair to make it detectable by some RWRs at short range.

[DirectSupport]

@Flame2512

Also I should add that in game the Eurofighter’s MAWS currently acts as a UV MAWS, so get’s triggered by flares, random missiles flying away from you, and god knows what else.

IR/UV MAWS, atleast modern ones, should still filter out false alarms such as flares/random missiles because they do observe the trajectory and flight path of heat sources. This was reported.

[Flame2512]

Radar MAWS have plenty of other benefits too (see my earlier comment). If Gaijin are going to model all the benefits of radar MAWS then at that point it’s fair for them to model the drawbacks.

[luque13]

@MiG_23M

Additionally, the Eurofighter’s DASS system will be emitting large amounts of radiation likely in L-band that modern Flankers such as the Su-35 are specifically designed to pick up and hone-in on .

Ok but at what ranges, 120 miles? The Typhoon already has that boat sized RCS of the Flanker and a firing solution.

[DevilO6]

We don’t know exactly, but < it’s working range.

[Mayzzt]

Speaking of radar and RCS, have people already tested at what range the eurofighter in-game can detect aircraft? The captor-m irl is capable of finding and tracking a target with a RCS of 2.5m² (something like a Mig-29) from more than 145km away.

[F0x_Hunter]

@Flame2512

I suspect @F0x_Hunter was talking about NATO L band (40 - 60 GHz); as in the NATO system K band is next to L band, instead of at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Yep. Thank you.

@Flame2512

Also I should add that in game the Eurofighter’s MAWS currently acts as a UV MAWS, so get’s triggered by flares, random missiles flying away from you, and god knows what else.

Now I purposefully use it as a flare sensor and know exactly when the target is trying to pre-fire countermeasures

@Flame2512

If Gaijin actually model it as having the benefits of a PD MAWS then it would potentially be fair to make it detectable by some RWRs at short range.

Provided that these RVRs are capable of detecting this band?

[EggyMan]

IRST elevation control is now completely busted :^) honk honk

[Tuurngait]

No point of it in game tbh

[MiG_23M]

@BagelIsMyWaifu

As you might be aware, to display the accurate position of enemy missiles, you first need to know the position of enemy missiles.

@BagelIsMyWaifu

I also have doubts in your assumption that it cannot accurately detect angles.

This is not an assumption, the sensors are not electrically scanned arrays although that may be a potential upgrade in the future. The method of specific angular tracking would come solely from the RWR ping of an active fox-3 seeker. IR based threats will have only vague angular tracking precision from the MAWS.

@Flame2512

Those links are all referring to IEEE L band (1 - 2 GHz). I suspect @F0x_Hunter was talking about NATO L band (40 - 60 GHz); as in the NATO system K band is next to L band, instead of at the opposite end of the spectrum.

That makes sense, I see the difference now. Thanks for clearing that up.

@Flame2512

I have no reliable information on what radar band Eurofighter’s MAWS operates in. Various websites claim the MAWS operates at 32–38 GHz, but I’ve not seen any particularly trustworthy sources to back that up. If true though that would put the MAWS in the upper end of NATO K band, which the vast majority of RWRs in game cannot detect.

The BOW-21 on the Gripen and Tornado have 20-40 ghz detection.
The F-18 uses the ALR-400 which covers K band.

It is not uncommon among the 4th gen or 4th+ gen fighters we see in-game and certainly will be picked up by the majority of future Russian aircraft in the game as far as I’m aware.

Spoiler

@Flame2512

The brochure you linked gave a couple of advantages over passive systems:

• Ability to measure range to missile
• Ability to measure missile closing velocity
• Ability to accurately calculate the time to impact
• Ability to detect missiles even if their motor has burnt our and / or the missile has slowed down

I expect the all-weather detection capability is also be better than an IR / UV system.

France in general has mitigated these issues greatly, their combined IR/UV system ensures more complete all-weather capability but is still inferior in extremely adverse conditions. The IR/UV in combination with the RWR is also far more than sufficient for the purposes of the game at detecting IR missile launches quickly and warning the pilot. Due to the nature of FOX-3’s locking the target well too far out in-game currently it is just too easy to notch them in time when they were launched from BVR.

Oh, and the optronics on the Rafale should be far more than sufficient to ensure people aren’t surprising you with point blank missile shots. I suppose the same can be said for the Typhoon, but certainly no one should be surprised you’re coming in the strobe light.