Eurofighter Typhoon (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion (Part 2)

[Morvran]

@Patriotic_panda

look at the indian rafale F3R, literally the same plane, they just actually put on 8 missiles

India =/= France.

Youll have to provide a primary doc stating nothing changed

@Patriotic_panda

a single photograph of a mockup does not count

Im sure Flame and Gunjob have plenty of docs for it. But go ahead, bug report it.

@Patriotic_panda

i am arguing against a mechanic that will have little to no counterplay, you even admitted that previously

It has plenty of counterplay, the exact same counterplay as the AASM.

@Patriotic_panda

you cannot have both 18 brimstones and be fire and forget, you can have 1 or the other, and gaijin agrees with me

Why not?

As I have stated previously

@Morvran_

Like making SP cost increase after taking 6-9x Brimstones significantly. Or capping the number you can take… There are solutions to the quantity. The only real limit is how much effort Gaijin can put in. But we already have 16x FnF on helis… So…

Denying FnF on the grounds that the Typhoon and Tornado can carry 18 is the most stupid argument in the world

and Gaijin has not stated anything anywhere about quantity being an issue.

@Patriotic_panda

i just want more range lmao, the seeker “buff” did little to nothing for the mica, its strength comes from gaijin adding angle gating, and how fast the mica is,

and I just want Aim-120Bs to have IRL performance, let alone Aim-120C5s. Or Aim-9Ms to have their IRL lock ranges. Let alone HOBS.

@Patriotic_panda

difference is, mine comes from an official expo

Spear-glide, slated for the Typhoon, Its brother the Spear-3 has already been test fired from a Typhoon

Cutting-edge Spear missile successfully test-fired 🚀

Given they are being deveoped by MBDA UK. They’ll likely be tested on the Typhoon first and are already slated for both F-35 and Typhoon intergration

The Spear Glide is less than 2 metres long and has a mass under 100 kg, and exploits existing launchers such as the three-pack and four-pack designed for Spear. MBDA aims at the fourth-generation market, so aircraft such as the Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, and KAI KF-21. That said, the company is close to certify an internal weapons-bay launcher for the F-35. No range indication was provided, as this depends much on release altitude and wind conditions. EDR On-Line understood the range should be comparable with that of competing systems, such as the GBU-53/B Storm Breaker and the Spice 250. - source

I havent seen the Rafale mentioned once in any press release for the Spear-Glide beyond the model in the background. That isnt enough to bug report them

[Patriotic_panda]

@Morvran_

India =/= France.

correct, but the planes, are in fact, the same, which was my point, another one goes over your head,

@Morvran_

It has plenty of counterplay, the exact same counterplay as the AASM.

you, LITERALLY, just said, 5 minutes ago it should ignore chaff in tank smoke, and seeing how this has gone so far, you will push for it endlessly

@Morvran_

Why not?

are you missing the point intentionally? you have to be, i have mentioned it like 5 times

@Morvran_

Denying FnF on the grounds that the Typhoon and Tornado can carry 18 is the most stupid argument in the world

so youd be okay with france having MMW AASMs?

@Morvran_

and Gaijin has not stated anything anywhere about quantity being an issue

not wanting 18 uncounterable missiles really isnt an illogical thing

@Morvran_

and I just want Aim-120Bs to have IRL performance, let alone Aim-120C5s. Or Aim-9Ms to have their IRL lock ranges. Let alone HOBS.

sure, go ahead, tho, something tells me youll still whine about the micas close range performance, additionally, the 9M can already lock further than they can reach anyway, so what would even be the point

@Morvran_

I havent seen the Rafale mentioned once in any press release for the Spear-Glide beyond the model in the background. That isnt enough to bug report them

if mockups are good enough for 18 brimstones, theyre good enough for 18 smart gliders, but i will say you did actually counter me a little congratulations

[Morvran]

@Patriotic_panda

correct, but the planes, are in fact, the same, which was my point, another one goes over your head,

Got a primary source stating that or is it just a “trust me bro”

@Patriotic_panda

you, LITERALLY, just said, 5 minutes ago it should ignore chaff in tank smoke, and seeing how this has gone so far, you will push for it endlessly

IRL, it would… But doesnt mean Gaijin has to model it that way. Absolutely no one has said it needs that ability.

Its not exactly the first time. Got primary docs for 9Ls being 100% resistant to flares if the target is on re-heat. They still get 1 flare defeated all the time no matter what.

@Patriotic_panda

are you missing the point intentionally? you have to be, i have mentioned it like 5 times

You have yet to give a reason why.

As I have stated, there is plenty of options for mitigation in GRB, but WT =/= GRB.

Whatever method is chosen should not impact ARB/ASB as that would suck just as much as not having them in the first place.

6x FnF Brimstone = 6x FnF AASM

9x FnF brimstones = 1.5x the SP cost of 6x FnF AASM. Etc etc etc.

As I have stated multiple times. Or are you just intentionally missing the point? You have to be, I have mentioned it like 5 times.

@Patriotic_panda

so youd be okay with france having MMW AASMs?

Sure, if they existed, first Ive ever heard about them though.

@Patriotic_panda

not wanting 18 uncounterable missiles really isnt an illogical thing

Why? In the same update they wrote a 3 paragraph long rant about why Brimstones would be too OP they added the Su-34 with 6x KH-38MTs and this was 9 months before the IRIS-T SLM finally began countering the Su-34 and later the Su-30. (and to this day, there is no evidence the KH-38MT ever existed)

Gaijin doesnt care about these kinds of things.

@Patriotic_panda

sure, go ahead, tho, something tells me youll still whine about the micas close range performance,

Of course, as we dont have our equivalent, the IRIS-T or ASRAAM

@Patriotic_panda

additionally, the 9M can already lock further than they can reach anyway, so what would even be the point

Clearly never used them. This is unture. dozens of times Ive had the target in the LSZ (let alone in range) and could not fire. Especially in front aspect where the lock range is only 3km against AB target (should be 14.45km) and good luck getting any front aspect lock against something not on AB.

@Patriotic_panda

if mockups are good enough for 18 brimstones, theyre good enough for 18 smart gliders, but i will say you did actually counter me a little congratulations

tiny plastic mockup = actual Typhoon with 18x Brimstones actually mounted onto the wings supported by docs and other information? Sure. You tell yourself that

[Dontkev-psn]

Radar:
Says Su-27 to the J-11B makes sense…

RWR: Runs them under Mig-29, oh, and the J-11B is missing

[Patriotic_panda]

@Morvran_

Got a primary source stating that or is it just a “trust me bro”

do you have any source saying the french one CANNOT take 8 micas? youre the one advocating they be removed so the burden of proof falls on you

@Morvran_

IRL, it would… But doesnt mean Gaijin has to model it that way. Absolutely no one has said it needs that ability.

youd still bug report it, rather than letting it be a gameplay balance thing, and if not you, than any one of the eurofighter fanboys will

@Morvran_

Its not exactly the first time. Got primary docs for 9Ls being 100% resistant to flares if the target is on re-heat. They still get 1 flare defeated all the time no matter what.

and theres the british trials saying the 9M is defeated by slow rise flares, so

@Morvran_

You have yet to give a reason why.

i have, if you would like to go back and read my points, youll see in plain text why having 18 fire and forget brimstones that ignore smoke, would be bad for gameplay

@Morvran_

9x FnF brimstones = 1.5x the SP cost of 6x FnF AASM. Etc etc etc.

how about we just remove brimstones entirely

@Morvran_

Sure, if they existed, first Ive ever heard about them though.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/946390096997912647/1424965847427973202/Frances_New_AASM_XLR_Smart_Bomb_Doubles_the_Rafale_Fighters_Strike_Range-a6f781f4.png?ex=68e92a1c&is=68e7d89c&hm=4d67a735ccc59f21babf55f63f6e8f1d0086489ce22a93bae177628d9fbeeea3& they were shown off at the paris air show just this year, so youd be 100% okay with this with no way to decoy them

@Morvran_

Why? In the same update they wrote a 3 paragraph long rant about why Brimstones would be too OP they added the Su-34 with 6x KH-38MTs

yes, a max of 6 KH-38s, and id be okay with the 38T getting removed, but they wont so whatever

@Morvran_

Of course, as we dont have our equivalent, the IRIS-T or ASRAAM

if they were arhs then you would but no one has 5th gen IR missiles, so (tho mica IR would still beat them)

@Morvran_

Clearly never used them

i have a LOT of experience with 9Ms, maybe not as much as you, granted, but enough to know exactly what i am talking about,

@Morvran_

(should be 14.45km)

good luck hitting anything at 15km.

@Morvran_

actual Typhoon with 18x Brimstones actually mounted onto the wings

a single photograph thats not backed up by use in real life

[Dontkev-psn]

Eurofighter vs Rafale battlefield

Here you gonna have a thread for all your disscussions comparing the Eurofighter and the Rafale so that their threads dont have to go off-topic every so often. So freely disscuss here if the Brimstone seeker is bad or the Rafale overperforming. have fun^^

this also exists

[MythicPi]

@Dontkev-psn

RWR: Runs them under Mig-29, oh, and the J-11B is missing

iirc the N001 the Su-27/J-11/J-11A use is basicly an upscaled N019 from the MiG-29, which is why they all come up as MiG-29 in RWR. Just something you gotta play around.

Its even worse if you use cockpit displays, since in their infinite wisdom, gaijin use different RWR threat databases for the in-game overlay and the MFD display, which is increadibly problematic, since you end up with most new aircrafts being added just showing up as a “?” in cockpit even if the RWR can ID the threat -_-

[Morvran]

@Patriotic_panda

do you have any source saying the french one CANNOT take 8 micas? youre the one advocating they be removed so the burden of proof falls on you

Proving a negative… wow. Good job there.

I guess you’ll have to provide a primary doc stating the Typhoon cannot carry 18x Brimstones.

@Patriotic_panda

youd still bug report it, rather than letting it be a gameplay balance thing, and if not you, than any one of the eurofighter fanboys will

As has been stated. Gunjob’s doc. Hes probably already provided it in his internal report/suggestion as a senior tech mod. Nothing to report.

But sure… Keep complaining.

@Patriotic_panda

and theres the british trials saying the 9M is defeated by slow rise flares, so

Yep, and? We dont have those in game yet. There is also docs for additional modes of IRCCM not modeled. But kinda a mute point. We should have ASRAAM not Aim-9Ms.

@Patriotic_panda

i have, if you would like to go back and read my points, youll see in plain text why having 18 fire and forget brimstones that ignore smoke, would be bad for gameplay

Again, please go back and re-read previous comments, you are the only one saying that we would have 18x FnF.

@Patriotic_panda

how about we just remove brimstones entirely

Sure, along with AASM. Still have yet to see a single primary doc that states they can track a moving target like they can in game.

@Patriotic_panda

if they were arhs then you would but no one has 5th gen IR missiles, so (tho mica IR would still beat them)

Kinematically, they are the same and no they wouldnt. ASRAAM beats MICA IR beyond point blank range and IRIS-T beats MICA IR at point blank range.

I know, shock horror, French weapon system isnt defacto the best.

@Patriotic_panda

i have a LOT of experience with 9Ms, maybe not as much as you, granted, but enough to know exactly what i am talking about,

Then Id suggest paying attention next time.

@Patriotic_panda

good luck hitting anything at 15km.

Never said you can. Lock range =/= kinematic range. But 6-8km in a headon, at alt… 100% possible. Maximise the advantage of the smokeless motor.

@Patriotic_panda

a single photograph thats not backed up by use in real life

and?

Like the mockups of the Rafale with 8x MICA EM.

3 wing pylons for A2G.

inner usually runs dual PW4s
middle usually runs external fuel tank
outer usually runs Brimstones.

taking both PW4s and Brimstones maximises flexibility and loadout effeciency. Especially in operations against mostly soft targets. If anything were to go hot in the east. You can bet that youd have Typhoons with 12-18x Brimstones 3s deployed

but talking to you is just talking in circles.

So if you want. try and bug report the typhoon only having 6-12x Brimstones. FnF will come sooner rather than later to the Typhoon.

[Dontkev-psn]

@MythicPi

Its even worse if you use cockpit displays, since in their infinite wisdom, gaijin use different RWR threat databases for the in-game overlay and the MFD display, which is increadibly problematic, since you end up with most new aircrafts being added just showing up as a “?” in cockpit even if the RWR can ID the threat -_-

thats how I noticed it, because something was an U on Cockpit RWR, while my Radar could ID it as Su-27

[Morvran]

I’ve blocked that guy. Clearly just trolling at this point.

Some people really dont like the idea of the Typhoon being modeled Historically accurately

[MythicPi]

Yeah, and they aint in a rush to fix it either…

[Dontkev-psn]

Tbf, the last report for the missing NCTR database update was fixed pretty fast

[Patriotic_panda]

@Morvran_

Proving a negative… wow. Good job there.

you literally told me to prove a negative first earlier lmao

@Morvran_

I guess you’ll have to provide a primary doc stating the Typhoon cannot carry 18x Brimstones.

you said there were documents to support it having 18, but wont show them

@Morvran_

But sure… Keep complaining.

you do enough senseless complaining for the both of us

@Morvran_

We dont have those in game yet.

we do lol

@Morvran_

here is also docs for additional modes of IRCCM not modeled

same with magic 2 oh well

@Morvran_

We should have ASRAAM not Aim-9Ms.

Patriotic_panda:

and we should have mica ir, not magic 2s

@Morvran_

Again, please go back and re-read previous comments, you are the only one saying that we would have 18x FnF.

youre advocating for both 18 brimstones and mmw capability, 1+1 = 2

@Morvran_

Sure, along with AASM. Still have yet to see a single primary doc that states they can track a moving target like they can in game.

documents make mention of mid course corrections for moving targets

@Morvran_

Kinematically, they are the same and no they wouldnt. ASRAAM beats MICA IR beyond point blank range and IRIS-T beats MICA IR at point blank range.

tell me, whats the suspected range of the asraam

@Morvran_

Then Id suggest paying attention next time.

i do, and havent had any issues

@Morvran_

Like the mockups of the Rafale with 8x MICA EM.

where are the mockups? all ive seen is actual flying examples

@Morvran_

FnF will come sooner rather than later to the Typhoon.

at no point have i ever argued against the typhoon ever having fire and forget missiles, ive been arguing against them getting 18 missiles with no counterplay

@Morvran_

but talking to you is just talking in circles.

youre absolutely right, but not for the reason you think

[Dontkev-psn]

My god, get your ass over there if you 2 want fight…

Eurofighter vs Rafale battlefield

Here you gonna have a thread for all your disscussions comparing the Eurofighter and the Rafale so that their threads dont have to go off-topic every so often. So freely disscuss here if the Brimstone seeker is bad or the Rafale overperforming. have fun^^

[MythicPi]

NCTR or RWR? Cuz NCTR is for the radar

[Patriotic_panda]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Dontkev-psn]

I know, thats why I said NCTR…

[quartas121]

@Patriotic_panda

ive been arguing against them getting 18 missiles with no counterplay

why not just add the chaff smokes to everything past a certain br

[MythicPi]

Well we were talking about the in-cockpit RWR threat database, so bringing up NCTR was out of left field

[Dontkev-psn]

Not realy, the NCTR had an similar issue,>missing planes…)))))