Irrelevant to the Typhoon if its discussing the harrier.
The document provided I beleive is outlining the early requirements that would go on to be adopted by the USMC for the F-35.
Didnt flame already cover this above? Perhaps you should re-read his comments before commenting.
Not even in game yet and you are trying to get ahistorical nerfs of the Typhoon
I already answered that, I don’t think it is fuel efficient super cruise and I think it’s particularly bad for the lifespan of the engine if the Eurofighter is essentially forcing the thing to cope with those conditions to allow for supersonic flight on dry thrust alone.
Little in the game has been historical since the MiG-15 and Sabre were top tier and last I checked the service life of the Typhoons engine is not a consideration for gameplay so what exactly do you think I’m trying to nerf?
No. Both are UK built engine recommendations and requirements. These studies are likely referenced and expanded upon for 6th Gen aircraft development in Europe.
Trying to remove the ability for the Typhoon to supercruise
So you haven’t been reading anything I’ve been saying at all?
Everything you’ve posted in the last few hours in this thread has read for me as if you are challenging if the Typhoon could even supercruise.
My argument is that if it does super cruise it is not doing so in a fuel efficient manner compared to it’s peers and certainly worse than the F-22, F-35, Su-35, Su-57, etc.
For an engine of the Typhoon’s parameters to do so is to put excess stress on the motor and likely reduce its lifespan faster than necessary. Given that it accelerates quite well with the afterburner I could see them foregoing the capability in practice during peace time to extend the service life of the engine.
I would question heavily the performance of the motor and how fast it could super cruise. Likely not more than 1.3 mach or so in usual conditions. This is likely achieved at 36k feet as well, per the UKs specs and due to that being the baseline for all their future engine projects.
Most sources claim more like 1.5 mach and that supercruise can be achieved without the use of reheat
and also sources that state low fuel burn
and can the F-22 supercruise at sea-level?
I will be honest, that means nothing. It allows the pilot to do so, yes. After all using AB makes it faster. But nowhere it says pilot HAS to use afterburner to pass mach 1. also, if engine needed AB to pass mach 1, it would not be able to supercruise, as without it it would slow down under mach 1. Using AB to pass Mach 1 is much fster compared to going full dry, but as other sources confirmed, supercruise can be achived on dry. (Yes, i saw what you wrote under the picture)
U guys are doing the mistake again to srgue with MiG_23M.
That can be as bad as starting am argument with alvis.
Leads absolutly nowhere because those guys are so convinced of their own opinion and can never be wrong
I don’t know what you’re getting at here.
That bit on Harrier will have been with reference to the F-35 most likely, since that was the projected replacement. The paper you provided talking about the SHAR replacement is not relevant because a) SHAR isn’t the Typhoon, b) the Pegasus and c) if you’d actually assimilated what the whole of that one page read, they basically stated it would have to be a STOVL Carrier due to the projections on what the Invincible replacements would be (practically guaranteeing it would need to have a VTOL capability) - which diminishes the relevance sizeably because by this point the EFT was a fairly “in progress” project: the prototype had already been flown and the engines ground tested heavily (and installed to my knowledge) by the point of that evidence being formulated. Hence my confusion as to why you’re interested in the SHAR paper which appears to be not in the slightest relevant.
Your second bit of “evidence” reads more like a “that’s what they sometimes do” and there are many sources that have been presented in this thread that support the idea that no afterburner is required for supercruise.
Dude’s name is mig-23, can you see why you shouldn’t argue with him?
Lol what a piss take
This is like saying that the Su-35 cannot go supersonic without afterburner because of the engine on the Yak-38
Dunning-Kruger Effect in full view. I’m certain psychologists would have a field day on these forums, if mental gymnastics were a sport, we’d have some record breakers right here.
Mate, just because the Russians can’t build a decent jet engine doesn’t mean the West can’t either lmao
That certainly can’t be the case, as the 6th Gen studies didn’t begin until the 2010’s, 20 years after this claim. Meanwhile, the F-35 was still undergoing development, so it’s definitely in reference to that
I assume you are choosing the RM12 and M88 as examples of engines which can super cruise (both the Rafale and Gripen are widely cited as super cruise capable)? The Ej200 compares favourable to both of those in terms of mass flow rate and specific thrust (thrust produced per unit of flow rate). Also of note is that it uses a convergent divergent nozzle, which by now means unique does give it a supersonic performance advantage over the M88, which only has a convergent nozzle.
| Engine | Mil Thrust (lb) | Max Thrust (lb) | Mass Flow (lb/s) | Mil Specific Thrust (lbf/lb/sec) | Max Specific Thrust (lbf/lb/sec) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| EJ200 | 13,500 | 20,200 | 168 | 80.36 | 120.24 |
| M88 | 11,200 | 16,900 | 143 | 78.32 | 118.18 |
| RM12 | 12,100 | 18,100 | 152 | 79.61 | 119.08 |
The F119 is undoubtedly a very impressive engine, but I’m not sure how it (or the rest of this comment is relevant to the EJ200’s ability to super cruise or not).
I’m not aware of the EJ200 having a variable bypass ratio. I believe it is fixed at 0.4.
As you say that paragraph is talking about a replacement for the Sea Harrier. That aircraft was to be a STOVL aircraft and I doubt the EJ200 lent itself particularly well to conversion into a STOVL / VTOL engine. I must admit I’m not too familiar with that period but I know at the time the UK was working with the US on various STOVL projects (SSF, ASTOVL, JAST - which became JSF) so the comment was likely being made with regard to one of those.
Thanks I’ll try and find time to give that a proper read.
An archived version of the Eurofighter website says it can accelerate to supersonic speeds on dry power. So as you say that’s probably talking about using afterburner to get to high speeds quicker, rather than it being necessary to get to high speeds.
At this point i dont know if you are talking about the link, or the thing it leads to
Looking at the link is like looking hieroglyphics
When i try to open it it says Ur session timed out
Am I reading this correctly that this Mig 23 guy argues that the EF cannot supercruise, despite all available (serious) documentation stating otherwise? What is wrong with this man