That’s not all, again, the power frame is made of metal
I mean, let’s be entirely fair, the only way we’re going to do that is-
Nevermind, none of us are going to pass any kind of SC checks. We’re on this damn forum 😄
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The performance of 1980’s era technology is well known to be quite inferior to that made after the 2000’s. As technology advances so does reliability. Now the biggest concerns are not reliability, but rather performance against stuff such as electronic warfare.
In fact, the AMRAAM would have been procured sooner if reliability problems were not resolved after initial testing showed totally unacceptable performance.
Source
Even the latest versions suffered reliability issues that held them back from production ~10 years. How does it take a decade for a missile to be re-designed just to meet basic reliability requirements?
Source
And why would I need to be shot at by one of these missiles to believe the department of defense? Is that the only way you’ll believe what I say even though it is backed by primary sources?
The 1997 MIL-E standard guidelines showing how installed and uninstalled thrust must be calculated in American aircraft are not a 1960’s document. The original was first printed in 1973 if I recall but was continuously updated yearly or as needed until it was replaced in '97 by a newer document that is still restricted.
Like the constant of gravity, friction values cannot change much. The friction of the surfaces may decrease, weight of the vehicle may decrease but there is a limit. There will always be some weight and there will likewise always be some friction. Channel losses cannot get much less than ~9-10%.
Perhaps they will find some smooth surface coating in the future that reduces the friction without causing problems for the supersonic shockwaves that slow air to subsonic speeds before the inlet. Until I see papers on this, the channel losses will be standard.
Oh, and channel losses do not care if it is a axial or centrifugal flow afterburning turbojet or if it is an augmented turbofan. Channel losses are caused by the inlet loss coefficient and the nozzle loss coefficient sums subtracted from uninstalled thrust.
@BBCRF does in fact work on Sukhoi’s in real life. Having firsthand experience working on something is not a requirement to understand basic physics or read a textbook.
Your opinion is irrelevant, everything I shared was sourced from the British MOD directly.
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Proceeds to List the same 1960s report almost on cue.
RB199 says hello (again). Sub 5% intake losses from uninstalled to installed thrust in the Tornado.
Actually, let me guess - ‘ThAt DoEsNT CoUnT!’ because it doesn’t agree with your chosen calculations made when slide rules were in vogue…
Tech changes, improves and iterates. You spent the best half of the previous week proclaiming that the Typhoon couldn’t possibly effectively supercruise. Now you appear to have chosen a new hill of insisting that every engine must be so hilarious inefficient that it’s a miracle the aviation industry hasn’t imploded.
It’s probably best to move on.
Oof! Gargh! Past self was on fire back then.
Well played good sir, well played.
For those interested - Concorde managed almost 95% pressure recovery using clever intake trickery. At Mach 2 - 75% of it’s thrust developed from the intake alone (the engines kind of along for the ride by that point).
Linky https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/426900-concorde-engine-intake-thrust.html
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This is a reminder that EJ200 has ~5.5% channel loss on dry-thrust, and ~5.58% on full reheat in-game.
5783/6118
8645/9177
So yeah, less than the ~9% I saw skimming this conversation.
So if I quote the 1997 MIL-E standards again are you gonna call it a “1960’s report” on cue?
If you insist, please show me where it says “1960-1969” anywhere on this page;
Spoiler
Clearly the stated thrusts are not measured properly according to MIL-E, no wonder, it’s not American. Regardless, the channel losses of British stuff must also follow the laws of physics like everyone else. When Russian and American stuff agree on something it is usually well supported everywhere else also.
I just shared British defense research agency documentation (Page 51 of PDF) that suggests that is the case and it was supported by additional manufacturer documentation provided by @kensai16.
Though I will reiterate that my current stance is that it is not fuel-efficient supercruise and thus defeats the purpose thereof. It is optimized for subsonic SFC at around 0.8 mach and supersonic SFC during reheat at about 1.8 mach. These are the points it was tailored to, and as a consequence of these requirements the supercruise performance diminished. To have good thrust specific fuel consumption without drastically degrading engine lifespan you’d need to be able to cruise at speeds like 1.3-1.5 mach without maxing out the temperature and pressure limits of your engine.
You can reference my post where I go over the first source for anyone not quite as knowledgeable or well-read in the subject.
This isn’t discussing the same thing you think it is. You are thinking of the percentage of air that is making it from the free stream flow ahead of the intake and into the compressor. This plays a small part in the overall inlet loss coefficient but it is not the entire story. At static speeds, outside air is being pulled in by the engine and so pressure recovery is not a considerable factor.
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So what is the conclusion on this long debate about eurofighter’s intakes
They are still going to be here after gaijin introduced 6th Gen aircraft into the game smh
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I think this bug report is mildly interesting for the 7 and a half Simulator Players in this thread.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/zCvKZmwP6tFW
Any info Gaijin fix Captor-M radar? I’m sick with this TWS that unable follow target correctly. Yesterday my TWS always follow and lock behind target or sometimes just really far from target, like the TWS just tracking a ghost.
Sadly not I think it is going to be like this for at least a week or two (I hope iam wrong)
Im tired keep locking ghost. And the dum dum thing is AIM120B accept that ghost as target and track it.
I think more likely its flying towards that ghost point on IOG. Ghost contacts arent a new issue, the F3 and Gripen were plagued with them for months at the start of the year
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Even my ICE have better tracking than this “Captor M” aka “Blue Vixen”.
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A complete catcher m?
In-game channel losses are 5-6% and inline with documentation that indicates that the installed thrust is about that much less than the number they give for the public. How the British calculate installed vs uninstalled thrust appears to differ from the rest of the world.
Or perhaps the benefit of a doubt should be given and that European designed and built aircraft like the Tornado, Concorde and Typhoon just have less channel loss on average than American built aircraft?
Especially in the absence of any proof that Britain “calculated installed vs unistalled thrust differently to the rest of the world”
There is zero discussion of what type of materials or design for the intake could yield 1/2 the channel losses of what countries with considerably better engines a generation ahead of them can develop. It is not a talking point anywhere in this document. America was a generation ahead of the EJ200 as early as 1987 in the form of the YF120 and realized in the F-35 with the F135.
Spoiler
From the same symposium where the British DRA (defense research agency) presented the EJ200 as a datapoint to compare to future engine concepts, primarily variable cycle engine types such as those tested on the YF23 and installed on the F-35;
Spoiler
Any kind of potential upgrade for the EJ200 that yielded so much as 3% better performance was discussed in lengthy detail from TVC nozzles to redesigns of the compressor, material sciences for increased temperature limits, etc. No data on improving channel loss.
So when the British consistently say that they have had such high installed thrust as opposed to the “maximum rating” (never really officially labeled “uninstalled” or “static thrust” to my knowledge), I cast doubt.
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