Etendard family

[Sakyuz]

also wasnt there something about air-air modes for the etendard radar

[JAF_R98]

yes SEM std 4/5 can carried GBU 49 too

[Morvran]

Continuing the discussion from Super etendard is insanely unbalanced:

@KrakenPleaseLOLP

Super Etendard is a rank 7 subsonic strike aircraft at 10.3 that gets no stock missiles , rockets or bombs and is forced to grind out against supersonic aircraft who carry multiple all aspect missiles so for air battles it should get stock air to air missiles or bombs or both (like the f111a which at 10.3 gets stock aim9bs and bombs and its also supersonic and fast)
Now for the even worse part its the ground battles and its insane br of 11.0! At 11.0 you get 2 rear aspect non irccm missiles, a non thermal targeting pod and 2 laser guided as30l missiles. At this br you have literaly no ground lineup, you are forced to uptier the 10.7 lineup or bring the etendard to 12.0 where it is outclassed by every other strike fighter which get all aspect irccm missiles, multiple better laser guided or fnf agms and which also have ground lineups at their br.
So gaijin should give stock missiles/rockets/bombs like every other rank 7 aircraft gets for air rb and for ground rb they should decrease the br to 10.3 like on the jaguar or if they must keep it at 11.0 with no lineup it should get magic 2s and a thermal targeting pod so it could be somewhat viable at 11.0-12.0 br matchmaking

Jaguars are the same. Its really crazy that ground attackers have to make do with guns only stock. Even some 500lb bombs would be more than enough

[KrakenPleaseLOLP]

please can some moderator or gaijin dev play the etendard and show us a lineup around it and how to use the etendard against 12.0 aa systems

[Morvran]

Thats just compression issues in GRB. Pantsir and most of the new SAMs should be like 12.3/12.7 with the IRIS-T SLM more like 13.0. But they wont increase the max BR of GRB. So instead you have 11.0 CAS fighting 13.0 aircraft and SPAA and it just doesnt stand a chance. Id not want to face an IRIS-T SLM in anything lower than a 12.0/12.3 CAS.

Why the Super Etendard is 11.0 though is somewhat beyond me. Doesnt seem any more dangerous than an AMX or Jaguar GR1A or Buc S2B at 10.3/10.7

[KrakenPleaseLOLP]

it isnt a decompression issue its non russia germany issue , they over tier everything french and destroy lineups

[Mathll]

I would like an ovation for Gaijin for showing us a Super Étendard with an Exocet on their last video. If they just want to anger SE player (more than they already are) they have just done the right thing

[Morvran]

Just need to add a Type 21 frigate armed with EXOCETs to the British TT next major 😜

[POLYDEUCES]

It’s time for Magic 2 on Super Étendard. It’s in a 80s+ matchmake so it should get the missiles it had.
Jaguar IS sits at the same Br with 2x Magic 2.

[Morvran]

Hu?

Super Etendard is 10.3

Jaguar IS is 11.3.

[POLYDEUCES]

Both 11.0 in ground matches. Super Étendard at 11.0/11.3 in air matches with Magic 2 would be mroe than reasonable.

[Morvran]

@POLYDEUCES

Both 11.0 in ground matches.

A2A fit is rarely all that considered for GRB. Though the SEs BR is probably too high for its A2G fit

(Tornado IDS/MFG/WTD61 with 2x Aim-9L at 10.0 vs Jaguar GR1A at 10.3 with 2x Aim-9Gs)

@POLYDEUCES

Super Étendard at 11.0/11.3 in air matches with Magic 2 would be mroe than reasonable.

Maybe… Might just about be okay. Though my personal experience is that for ground attackers, the lower BR the better. Air RB forces a greater emphasis on A2A performance, but I prefer playing the Jag GR1 over the Jag GR1A, and prefer both over the Jaguar IS. Harrier T10 over the Gr7. Buc S2 over the Buc S2B. Etc etc. Especially in a more friendly gamemode for ground attackers like ASB.

Only exception I have is the Tornado Gr4, though there is more to it than just loadout.

TLDR: Lower BR over better weapons for anything not meant to be dogfighting

and it feels like a good time to plug this thread:

Ground Attackers, Battle rating & Rewards. We need an official discussion

More than a year ago now, as a direct response to the extensive requests for the Tornado IDSs to share a battle rating and not be errenously split between 2 BRs we got this response regarding ground attacker “Effeciencies” and the relationship between BR and Rewards for these aircraft. You can read the full segment here:

Spoiler

Continuing the discussion from <a href="https://forum.warthunder.com/t/responding-to-your-feedback-on-separate-battle-ratings/111701">Responding To Your…

[vizender]

@Morvran

Maybe… Might just about be okay. Though my personal experience is that for ground attackers, the lower BR the better. Air RB forces a greater emphasis on A2A performance, but I prefer playing the Jag GR1 over the Jag GR1A, and prefer both over the Jaguar IS. Harrier T10 over the Gr7. Buc S2 over the Buc S2B. Etc etc. Especially in a more friendly gamemode for ground attackers like ASB.

Thing is, for both the étendard and the AMX, they just went up, and up, and up. SeM (super étendard) used to be 10.0 I believe, which was indeed too low. Then 10.3-10.7 was good to okay, but now 11.0 in range of say, the pantsir, the SLM, the ITO is just stupid. It gets 2 AS30L (got them after br changes, so its not the reason for the change) and 6 guided bombs (no missiles, just guns this way), so literally a worse loadout than say the A6E (albeit better FM), at a higher CAS BR.
I don’t remember if the 11.0 AMX is the one with Python missiles, but if not, both are over BRed, even if you dont count compression

[Morvran]

@vizender

Thing is, for both the étendard and the AMX, they just went up, and up, and up. SeM (super étendard) used to be 10.0 I believe, which was indeed too low. Then 10.3-10.7 was good to okay, but now 11.0 in range of say, the pantsir, the SLM, the ITO is just stupid. It gets 2 AS30L (got them after br changes, so its not the reason for the change) and 6 guided bombs (no missiles, just guns this way), so literally a worse loadout than say the A6E (albeit better FM), at a higher CAS BR.

I agree 11.0 is too high for GRB. Direclty comparing to something like the Jaguar Gr1A or Buc S2B at 10.3. 10.3 or 10.7 would be about right for the SE depending on a few things.

Though what you quoted was entirely looking at those aircraft in ARB/ASB and not GRB. Magic IIs for the SE would make it more balanced in A2A in GRB. But would result in a major BR increase in ARB/ASB, which might cause more harm than its worth.

@vizender

I don’t remember if the 11.0 AMX is the one with Python missiles, but if not, both are over BRed, even if you dont count compression

Neither AMX have a Python missile. Unless you mean the MAA-1 Piranha on the AMX A-1A which is just a sidegrade Aim-9L. Not enough to warrant 11.0 in ARB/ASB. especially as the AMX A-1A also has a harder to use gun as well.

[vizender]

@Morvran

Though what you quoted was entirely looking at those aircraft in ARB/ASB and not GRB

I see, didn’t quite get what you meant.

@Morvran

Magic IIs for the SE would make it more balanced in A2A in GRB. But would result in a major BR increase in ARB/ASB, which might cause more harm than its worth.

I never see SeM in air battles, but I used to see some in ground when it was at a lower BR, so i think improving its loadout would be more beneficial than anything. Although, as long as it sits in top tier range, no upgrade are actually worth bringing, especially with the mirage 2000D-R1 at 11.3 being miles better
All in all, it should keep the same loadout but go down (eventually removing the AS30L, not that it causes issue for the Jaguar at 10.3).

@Morvran

Neither AMX have a Python missile. Unless you mean the MAA-1 Piranha on the AMX A-1A which is just a sidegrade Aim-9L. Not enough to warrant 11.0 in ARB/ASB. especially as the AMX A-1A also has a harder to use gun as well.

Fair enough, i don’t have much experience with those missiles (only a few games in the Japanese squadron f5) so i don’t really have the feeling of using those

[Morvran]

@vizender

I never see SeM in air battles, but I used to see some in ground when it was at a lower BR, so i think improving its loadout would be more beneficial than anything.

Sticking with ARB as A2A fit really isnt relevant for GRB (as seen by a lot of wildly different aircraft all at the same BRs) this is probably less on the SE and more just on the poor state of ARB for strike aircraft.

But I think being 11.3 instead of 10.3 just to gain 2x Magic II would cause more harm than good. What you’d face would change radically, including constantly facing Mig-23MLs that will take all the potential base kills and F-18/F-16/Mirage F1 (I think they can be on both teams). etc etc. It would be rough for something that is barely supersonic.

Jaguar IS which is faster than the SE, I didnt really enjoy when spading it. I know a few that liked cheesing having magic II at such a low BR, but I dont think its worth it over the Jaguar GR1A if you want to actually play the aircraft the way its meant to be played

[vizender]

I do agree that going to 11.3 with 2 magic 2 would not be very nice.
But at 10.3 I would also rather not take the SeM and go even lower at 9.3 in the regular Étendard. It has slightly worse FM, worse radar and 2 Aim9B but isn’t in a full supersonic bracket.
Anyway, the SeM as it stands is in an annoying situation wether it’s ARB or GRB.
Interestingly enough it’s actually decent in sim ground battles because it faces 2S6 at worst, so I have been enjoying it (despite being a very, very casual sim player once or twice every few months)

[Morvran]

@vizender

But at 10.3 I would also rather not take the SeM and go even lower at 9.3 in the regular Étendard. It has slightly worse FM, worse radar and 2 Aim9B but isn’t in a full supersonic bracket.

Yeah this is precisely what I Meant above.

@Morvran

Though my personal experience is that for ground attackers, the lower BR the better

@vizender

Anyway, the SeM as it stands is in an annoying situation wether it’s ARB or GRB.

ARB I think is a universal issue. Casual plug #2

GRB, does look too high.

@vizender

Interestingly enough it’s actually decent in sim ground battles because it faces 2S6 at worst, so I have been enjoying it (despite being a very, very casual sim player once or twice every few months)

I have the same experience in the AMX A-1A and Jags.

I also imagine the SE would be quite good in ASB as well, where it can fight to its strengths far more, like all ground attackers can.

[vizender]

@Morvran

I also imagine the SE would be quite good in ASB as well, where it can fight to its strengths far more, like all ground attackers can.

I usually dont play air sim with attackers, can’t be bothered to kill 6 AI and have to go rearm for 30 minutes. I’d rather play Microsoft Flight Sim at this point. But it’s probably much better indeed with the maps being large so you dont have to face off to many fighters, and being in a more strictly set bracket than usual up tiers in RB and AB

[Morvran]

also stealth/being sneaky is a viable tactic