I’m writing to you regarding a major issue concerning the Super Étendard.
The Super Étendard is an aircraft used by the French naval aviation until 2016.
The aircraft was modernized to standard 5, adding 4 GBU-12 Paveway II bombs, which should normally be replaced by GBU-49 E-Paveway II, along with the Damoclès pod for day/night laser designation.
Currently, in the game, the Super Étendard is a very powerful aircraft in Ground RB with its 4 GBU-12 bombs, but it lacks the Damoclès pod and AS30L, which were removed for balance reasons, even though the 4 GBUs are much more powerful than the 2 AS30L for a BR 10.0 aircraft that can easily reach 10,000 meters.
However, the big problem with this aircraft is that in Air RB, it is completely inferior to all other aircraft at its BR, especially for a subsonic jet.
The aircraft doesn’t have Magic 2 missiles, unlike other aircraft in its category such as the SU25, A10, or A6E, which are equipped with R60M or Aim9L at the same BR.
Adding the Magic 2 would be the best option to improve this aircraft in Air RB and make it competitive against other aircraft at its BR that outperform it in all aspects, especially in aerial combat.
In any case, in my opinion, the Super Étendard should not remain at BR 10.0 due to its high effectiveness in Ground RB, which makes it even more obsolete in Air RB.
Even if the addition of the Magic 2, or even the Damoclès pod, increasing the BR of the aircraft to 10.3 or even 10.7 would be a very welcome improvement to give this aircraft a chance.
The SEM in-game is the S4 standard, so it is technically accurate in the regards of not having DAMOCLES or E-Paves. We were originally going to get the S3 1997 version but we managed to convince them to bump it up to the S4.
They opted not to add the AS30L and Magic-II due to BR concerns. https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/WPCmf951Oa1A
The Magic-II due to the IRCCM buffs would likely be seen as superior to the R60M in all regards, and with worse range but better flare resistance than the 9L.
It’s disappointing since it carries way less payload, both dumb and PGM, than the other 10.0 jets like the Su-25, A-6E, and A-10.
Honestly it would be okay if the S4 as is was lowered to 9.7 and we got an S5 variant (With Damocles and Magic-II like you would like) or a later Jaguar variant.
I completely agree with you.
but we still have the problem of loading 4 GBU12 which is impossible on a
Standard S4.
This is why I still don’t understand this choice to release a bastard plane between the S3 and S5 standards.
And thanks for the link to the issues.
If you’re talking about the AUF2 pylons I think it should be possible on the S4, though you’re free to show otherwise. The same pylon was used with the older Mirage F1 at a point, and also the Mirage 2000 as well. There was also an interim SEM S4+ standard (only difference was that they put an adapter for a DAMOCLES), which I believe was around for the AUF2 pylon as well.
i rather have it at 10.0 with only gbu 12 and magic 1 than 10.7 or 11.0 to just get two magic 2, at 10.0 you can atleast uptier a bit the amx 40 and use it in ground battles, higher than 10.0 would make it useless, as youre just better off usjing the mirage 2000d or f5 or even the jaguar A, not to mention that you wouldnt face top tier spaags
I can understand. Except that I am mainly a plane player and not a tank player, so having a subsonic plane in 10.0 without anything to defend it effectively in Air RB while all the other planes of the same type can do it is ridiculous.
The super standard and a more modern plane than the jaguar so to make changes it is the jaguar which should come down from br and the Super Etendard which should replace it with all its modern armament has a br of 10.3 like a late A10
with magic 2 is not going to be on the same br as an a10 late, seen how the the a7k is 11.0 or how the av8b, su 25tm or the gr7 are over 11.3 and knowing gaijin, if they add magic 2 it is going to be at least 10.7, but it is more likely that they will put it at 11.0, the magic 1 and the 180 flares is more than enough for 10,0.
Currently the problem is that the Super Étendard has never had the vocation of doing Air Air because there has always been with it the F8 Crusader and after the Rafale to do this Job.
So we arrive at the problem that the aircraft in 10.0 Rb is completely inferior to the fighter and in guided weapons carrying capacity for the CAS it remains inferior to the A10 Su25 A6E of the same Br which had the effective fox2.
So in this case why did you remove AS30L and add the double racks for the GBUs on an S4 standard which arrived with the GBU49 and the S5 standard?
This Plane in its current state has nothing to do with such a high BR, especially since there was already the Jaguar at this BR.
So Gaijin does as usual and shits on France in every way by releasing a plane with completely nerfed possibilities but has a Br far too high which risks continuing to increase given the effectiveness of the plane in ground RB without the rest of the armament following.
i wouldnt say that the cas is inferior than any of those, 4 laser guided bombs in this br is quite good, sure the a6 does have more bombs but the SEM can climb much faster and do more sorties and it can only have more bombs if doest carry a gun or missiles, if you use a single missile and a gun youre limited to 5, on the other hand the sem can use 4 bombs and bring alongside 2 missile, more countermeasures and guns, with the su 25 you need to get much closer, and the a10 only have tv guided weapons which are less reliable and more expensive to spawn with, also it is painfully slow.
Most fox 2 in this br are rear aspect, those three are the ones out of place.
It would be nice if it br goes down to 9.7 but it keeps being a perfectly capable 10.0
I’m tired about the whining about Magic I/II.
A-5C had airswpawn at 10.0 back in the day as well as Magic I while being only a little worse than MiG-19PT in flight performance. Don’t forget the counter measures either.
Not even Mirage IIIC was lowered to 10.0 even when Mirage IIICJ was added at 10.0 which is just as good.
Then the SU-25, A-10 and A-6 madness.
Sure in a Milan you can slap most people who play these jets in random matches or stay out of range, but the fact remains, that for the flare less aeroplanes, especially sub sonic ones it doesn’t matter wether they get slapped by AIM-9L, Magic 2 or R-60M.
Sure R-60M has some less range which is why A-10 is higher in Br but both have flight performance that if the aeroplane is played by someone who knows what to do is quite dangerous.
Super Étendard with Magic 2 would fit nicely at 10.0 between SU-25 and A-10 so to speak.
If you know what you are doing you will still get more kills on average with 4 AIM-9L.
I would not be so annoyed about the missing Magic II, if the A-10/6 & SU-25/39 cash grab had not left France in the dust again.
That argument about 2 Magics somehow being so superior that 4 or even more missiles on the other aircraft being balanced has not been true since some time after Mirage IIIC was added.
To begin with, it wouldnt fit 10.0, it would be a 10.7+ plane, the missile is by all means better than the aim9l and the r60m. keep in mind that the a7k is 11.0 and that plane would literally be worse in all aspect compared with the SEM with magic 2, kinda is already, at a full br over the sem… with the old magic 2 it could have stayed at 10.0 or 10.3, but knowing how it is currently it has no place down there.
In a 1vs1 with the sem if you die against an a10 thats skill issue, the a10 is only good at killing subsonic flareless planes, thats pretty much it.
We had the Missile point already.
That A-7 is held back should not be an issue for Super Étendard. SU-25 and A-10 set the standard of power kreep at this Br. Super Étendard with Magic w would fit right in.
Depends, for a plane without countermeasures the IRCCM wont matter. On very short range many missiles will already hit you anyway.
On longer ranges you can certainly use countermeasures effectively.
At medium range you have to be careful.
Again what is the issue.
You have 2 relatively short ranged missiles where SU-25 has four just like AIM-9L.
In higher br the issue with R-60 is it’s range otherwise it’s still very decent.
Witj 4 AIM-9L you can still get more kills than with 2 Magic 2.
What is the power creep?
That Br compression still stucls and that premium attackers better use their huge amount of flares now?
Dodging Magic 2 kinematically will still be easier than doing the same with AIM-9L.
the su 25 has 2 r 60 m which are much shorter range than the magic…
youre a non afterburning jet even at short range the missile will eat the flares
for planes without it does matter, and there are plenty of those around this br
with your plane you can do more kills, you keep having a gun and better performance…
not being able to doge a missile and also being unable to flare it, with the other missiles the latter doesnt happen, the aim 9L and r60M are easy to flare, specially the later.
it is just as hard, specially when it is launched form an a10, and again you can control your separation from the a10 much more easily, the SEM goes much faster.
so your solution for br compression is to worsen the problem even more… again, the SEM with just magic 1 is perfectly competitive for 10.0, im to having any issue with it, specially with the attackers like the su25, a10 or a6, you can literally dictate how to engage them, and they are stupidly easy to kill with guns. with 190 flares you can just use periodically released flares, and the aim9L or r60m cant do you shit.
You posted many half valid points.
Since your experience in game differs so much from mine there is no point to it.
Where SU-25 and A-10 have energy retention Super Étendatard is a little faster.
F-8E or MiG-21MF/SMT or Mirage 3 will slap both.
In a downtier you do not even really need IRCCM, since many aeroplanes are already forced to rely on defeating all aspect and other missiles kinematically. AIM-9L and AIM-9D/G are all very potent especially in regard to their range.
On short range I’ve hit many aeroplanes without afterbuner with missiles even when they were flaring.
Either they flare to late or the angle is just right…
Learning situational awareness and pre flaring which will be rather necessary before they play the highest br’s would be good.
This game sadly has no true historical matchmaking or br system that matches aeroplanes against it’s real opponents where reasonable and similarly capabple aeroplanes where it is not.
Adding Super Étendard with Magic 2 and AS-30L is not about ruining other aircraft but adding a long awaited jet in a competitive state.
If it ends up slightly superior to A-10 or SU-25 that is no issue, since the aspects where it is superior while noticeable only truly matter in certain situations.
Magic-II would mean to Super-Etendard to at least jump on 10.7 BR directly by adding such missiles, as Magic-II were buffed using some IRCCM methods now (unmodelled until now)
there isnt really a point to continue arguing with someone that thinks that the super etendard is a little faster than an a10…
The etendard is perfectly fine at 10.0 with just magic 1, like it or not the likelihood that the SEM gets magic 2 without a significant br jump is next to 0.
