ECM is long overdue in this BVR Meta, Aircraft with internal ECM should be priority

The time for ECM is long overdue. This next patch is a perfect time for the snail to implement aircraft with internal ECM capabilities. This would greatly help with the current BVR Meta. Yes, I understand true ECM is a much more complex system than simply blinding and spoofing seekers. However for early adoptions they should start simple. We already have aircraft with RIO/Electronic Warfare officers on board which also makes this a no brainer. The ECM for the early adoption would come in 3 modes:

Off/Active/SPJ (Self Protection Jamming)

Along with this, the down sides should be implemented as well. The Lock On Jam feature of many missiles should come at the same time as internal ECM abilities. This can be done with near zero model changes, or the need to implement pods in the first iteration. Plenty of aircraft have internal ECM systems:

A4-Skyhawk
A6-E
A10
F4C+
F14A+
F15A+
F16A+
UK AV-8B
Mig-29SMT(Only had it, 9.12 did not)
Italian Tornado (UK went with external for some reason)
Mirage 2000
Gripen C
KFIR
J10
Rafael

This means that nearly every nation could benefit from it at the same time. With the F18 (US, UK (Aus & Can), Sweden(Finalnd)), and EF Typhoon coming soon, that would also put Internal ECM into everyone’s hands.

This would be a nice boost to the UK Tech tree which has suffered long enough. They would get both the F18 and EF Typhoon.

And we have plenty of upcoming aircraft with internal ECM systems:

F117A
F18A+
F22A+
F35
EF Typhoon
SU-33 (SU-27 never had it)
SU-57
Mig 35

Home on Jam should come into play here. We already have missiles in game that had this feature:

Aim-7M+
Aim-54A+
Aim-120A+
F-90
Hawks
Mica RF
R27EP (only)
R77
Super 530D+
Pythons
Derbys

And some others.

It makes a lot of sense to along with adding ECM also add the Maddog or Lock On After Launch mode with its own key binding. Launching cold off the rail has some serious advantages that would balance the ECM. First off, it can burn through the ECM until its close enough to get a lock. Second, their is no launch warning, these missiles would be coming in silent, but with the HOJ feature they would be a serious risk to anyone running ECM. It would make for some good balanced counter play. You can ECM but your risk being HOJ’d. The down side is you need to get a good heading or the missile just goes into no where. Thats the risk/reward.

This would really allow some aircraft to shine in roles they were designed for, and help to balance out the BVR play.

In addition to ECM, aircraft with a dedicated RIO/EW Officer should be given “better” ECM since that is a job of that crew member. In these cases ECM should be at least 2X better on older model aircraft.

SPJ or Self Protection Jamming is a system that activates as a countermeasure. This is found in most of the aircraft listed above. This would be a wonderful feature as it wrecks havoc on missiles like the R27ER.

Spoofing should be included. Spoofing systems in the ECM create false positives on the enemy radar, but more importantly in the seeker. Having them lock on targets that are far enough off once the damage is done they can’t find a clean lock on a real target. This is a well know feature of the SPJ and would cause the missiles to act like Sparrows already do (but shouldn’t as badly as they do) in game. Spoofing also wrecks havoc on the reliability of how many and where you think you are tracking. Spoofing with SPJ would force missiles to trail too far behind instead of properly leading. This design is intentional in aircraft like the F15C we have in game that has a trailing ECM system. It does exactly that, and would make side firing on targets far less effective. The missile would lag behind until its too late to correct.

It is probably important to note late generation Sparrows, Aim-54C/C+, F90, MICA, and Aim-120s all have ECCM where they can use rear and forward antennas to counter chaff and SPJ. This isn’t perfect, but it does work some of the time and should be implemented as well. So that SPJ isn’t a guarantee.

Jittering is another feature of these internal ECMs which would be fantastic against BVRs. Jittering causes the missile to make constant course corrections that bleed its speed and range down. This should be self explanatory how this would benefit in game.

Another benefit of ECM along with Spoofing is that it would hide who is climbing and who is not. Are 8 climbing? Maybe only 2? With spoofing its hard to tell, and getting a lock at longer ranges is even more unreliable and harder especially when you might be firing at nothing.

Lastly it also makes sense because the way maps are now, no one is hiding and jockeying for position so giving yourself away with ECM isn’t a deal breaker. We already have lock sometimes on takeoff, and if not shortly after takeoff. Not to mention the RWR is giving you away on takeoff anyways.

This should come with the option in settings to spawn with ECM On or Off and in which mode.

  1. Add ECM, the easiest way possible to start with aircraft that already have it internally. Include spoofing abilities. Make sure to include SPJ mode.

  2. Add option setting for ECM On or Off when you spawn.

  3. Add key bind for Maddog firing missiles that have that ability.

  4. Add HOJ for missiles that should already have it.

  5. Add LOAL mode for missiles that should have already had it.

  6. Add SPJ mode, properly, with spoofing to help kick off Fox 1 & 3s. But also to kick off datalinked Fox 2s.

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Doesn’t have internal ECM, it carries a pod atleast that was my understanding. All British Harrier II’s have the Zeus ECM system internally.

Are you sure about that? All Tornado’s carry external pods to my knowledge. Love to see your source for that.

Again I thought the F-16C ECM was provided by the AN/ALQ-184 pod. But I’m no expert in US systems, seems like the sort of thing @tripod2008 would know quite well.

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ALQ-165(V) works with the F14, F18, and F16 for starters. AN/ALQ-165 Airborne Self Protection Jammer (ASPJ) Actually works with the F16A so I mis-spoke on that one. going to correct it now. " ASPJ entered FSD in 1979 and LRIP in 1989. Five OT&E phases were conducted with ASPJ FSD systems in 1988 and 1989. Flight testing on DoD electronic warfare (EW) ranges was in the F/A-18A and F-16A. Key performance criteria for effectiveness and suitability were not met and the FSD systems were not considered production representative. In 1990 the DAB agreed to revised ASPJ effectiveness measures. The Joint Requirements Oversight Council (JROC) validated these measures in August 1991, and USD(Acquisition) approved the Acquisition Program Baseline (APB) incorporating them in December 1991."

Correct, I should have been more specific. But this could be the kind of boost that the UK tree needs along with it getting the F18 and EF Typhoon.


Also I found out the J10 has the ability to run an internal ECM so it was added to the list. In an upgrade program they could be outfitted with the KL-700

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Unsure about the F-16C but the Barak II carries (From my understanding) the ELTA EL/L-8240 system in its tail under the rudder

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I posted it. The earliest model it was tested with is the F16A with the ALQ-165(V). A newer model was implemented in 1991 that is even better and from there only goes up. So essentially any of them can run it.

“In late FY95 an Air Force F-16 was shot down over Bosnia by a SAM. The operational commander urgently requested deployment of a developmental self protection system to improve survivability of F-16s and F/A-18C/Ds in the Bosnian theater of operations. Although successfully integrated on the F-16 and immediately available in limited numbers, the requested system was not compatible with the F/A-18C/D. The only system rapidly available to improve F/A-18C/D survivability against the threat of interest was the ASPJ. Contingency F/A-18C/D deployments continued as F-14D deployments began, resulting in potentially competing demands in the near term for available ASPJ systems.”

The F18 got something better “The F/A-18C/D with ASPJ was demonstrated during the FY92 OPEVAL, and since, to be more effective against selected modern threats than the F/A-18C/D with the AN/ALQ-126B. During the 4QFY95 shore based deployment which was evaluated, the suitability of ASPJ was adequate for the requirements placed on it during the contingency operations.”

And fun fact that same AN/ALQ-126B can be found on the F4 Phantoms: The Phantom Phacts: AN/ALQ-126 NOISE DECEPTION JAMMER

Of course this is just one system of many, as many aircraft do and have run multiple systems leading to a mess of antennas, but you don’t die…

or hear me out, how about a patch that isnt air focused for once at all and focuses on ground or even ewww naval

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Considering I posted this in the “Aircraft” portion of the forums, it seems the appropriate place to discuss this. The cases of updates to the Ground and Naval modes of the game should likely go into those sections.

doesnt matter realy where you posted it. Its still a valid opinion that air section of the game was the main focus point for a good while now, hell even the freaking introduction of rank 8 ground was more air focused.

Its a fact we could do with an update that isnt air focused. You are demanding and demanding for the newest toys while completly forgetting the other game modes.

Do you know what would be a way better addition next patch then ECM? Regenerative steering for tanks. Air as of right now does not need another air focused update specialy after it just got the fox 3 update.

The fact as well that you tried to make me “shut up” with its not the ground section jesus thats entitlement

Which nation did I leave out? I even suggested this because the UK tree has suffered long enough and this would be a huge boost to their line up. The UK will most likely get the CF18 (It should) and with internal ECM it would allow them to be a part of the Top Meta. This also applies to all nations that get the EF Typhoon. Its a way to bring everyone up to top tier.

Because you are in the Air section of the forums, a place to discuss and present the next iterations that Air should see. If you have a gripe with overall features, they literally have a thread for that in the next update that covers everything. I put this in an air specific forum for discussion. If you are concerned you are being left out then it goes here: Next patch and beyond wishlist(Everything except Tech Trees) - #756 by someweirdname

The development teams are separate in air, ground, and naval. Efforts spent on air this patch does not detract from efforts spent on ground this patch as Smin has explained. If anything, more priority on aircraft ECM would take away from other aircraft stuff. Nothing to do with ground.

seperate

force of habit *forgetting the other game modes *

I don’t recall the US aircrafts having any internal ECM until Super Hornet and F-35/F-22. I’d be glad to be wrong though.

Cool today I learned, Cheers.

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Please read my other posts, including the link I posted which states how the F18C/D got upgraded internal ECM during the Bosnian war separate from the F16 & F14s. One that was implemented with the F4 Phantom as well.

The IDECM program for the F18 E/F originally was required to be backward compatible with the ASDJ systems. However they found it too expensive to run multiple systems, so they developed a better all in one system. Easier on maint, and less costly than running both.

Well, I consider myself proven wrong regarding the F-18C.

BAE Systems and U.S. Navy recognized for performance-based logistics on electronic countermeasures system | BAE Systems

However what about the A-10A? We don’t have A-10C.

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I would need to do some digging on the A10-A. Older versions may very well not be compatible. I know the Mig-29A can’t do it but the Mig-29SMT can. I also know the SU-27 is noted as not being able to do it, but the SU-27SM kind of can.

Maybe it is here: A-10A Flight Manual (TO 1A-10A-1) 1988 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

You can just say Mirage 2000’s, since all versions had an internal suite of ECM which includes jamming. This goes for Mirage 2000C, Mirage 2000D, and Mirage 2000-5F. The name of the suite is called ICMS (Integrated Countermeasures System)

You can include the Rafale in the list, it has SPECTRA suite.

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I did cursory look through it using jam as a search word, nothing came up of ECM.

It may be just the A10C or retrofit A10A. Since we have the “early” version retrofit isn’t an option.

We also have the late variant, so retrofit could be an option for that one, if it did get it.

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