Fun fact multi vehicle spaa is a thing since atleast ww2 and no I am not talking about aa missile prototypes
USA CAS is the best in the game 2nd to none. Are they not Western to you?
As for SPAA, all 10 tech trees lack SPAA able to frag any top CAS when played correctly.
TOR-M1 is Crotale equivalent.
JH-7A is quite literally F-111F equivalent, which is inferior to other US CAS.
Su-25SM3 is AV-8B equivalent.
Ka-50 hasn’t be “the meta” since heli PVP.
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JH-7A is quite literally F-111F equivalent, which is inferior to other US CAS
I have the JH-7A and it requires absolutely no skill and that’s especially thanks to the long range TV guided missiles. I’m not here trying to say Russia and China should get vehicle nerfed or removed but all other tech trees should be brought to their level.
Su-25SM3 is AV-8B equivalent
Pure delusion, don’t make me laugh brother the SU-25SM3 is far superior to the AV-8B/GR.7.
Ka-50 hasn’t be “the meta” since heli PVP
The KA-50 is pretty good if you have more than three functional braincells, the Vikhr missiles are still goated as hell and when it comes to helicopter PvP (in ground realistic) it’s easily one of the best.
TOR-M1 is Crotale equivalent
I have the Tor-M1 and most of China in fact, the Tor-M1 far exceeds the Crotale and comparing it to anything but the Pantsir is absolutely ridiculous, the most manoeuvrable missiles in-game with datalink for 2 missiles is a absurdly good thing to have.
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This is just flat out wrong, the F-16C is the best CAS in game
- 6x mavericks + 2x paveway III
- Supersonic
- Maneuverable
- Good optics
- capable of defending itself against CAP
now compare that to the Su-25SM3
- 4x KH38MT + 2x Kh25ML
- Subsonic
- Bad maneuverability
- Bad optics shared by all su-25
5 2x mediocre IR missiles for defense
The F-16C is just a better plane the only good thing on the sm3 is the 38MT
The JH7A is objectively bad it only gets access to 2x Kh29T and some guided bombs whike every other plane that can carry CAS even the Mirage 2000 just gets better weapons
The Tor is a bad SPAA why would you even remotely consider it better than western SPAA
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Are you actually getting filtered by a heli with only guns and rockets, literally just use a proxy shell or machine gun they’re barely a threat to anything but a light tank
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This is just flat out wrong, the F-16C is the best CAS in game
The Kh-38 both laser and TV variants are the best air to ground missiles in-game, they far exceed anything the F-16C can carry but the F-16C isn’t too short from the SU-25SM3.
Being able to kill 2 to 6 targets the minute you spawn in whilst having MAWS and the best RWR on a fixed-wing aircraft makes it a absolute beast at CAS.
Bad optics shared by all su-25
The SU-25SM3 has a new FLIR fitted at the nose of the aircraft with generation 2+ thermals, it’s completely fine and is better than most thermal pods aircraft can carry (if you want to include drag and performance).
The JH7A is objectively bad it only gets access to 2x Kh29T
My experience in the JH-7A says otherwise, the Kh-29T is usually a free kill and being able to evade whilst firing missiles at bandits is a huge luxury only Eastern nations have (the AGM-65 is nothing compared to it).
The Tor is a bad SPAA why would you even remotely consider it better than western SPAA
I honestly prefer the Tor-M1 over the Pantsir in my opinion and this is due to how manoeuvrable the missiles are, it’s EASILY the 1st or 2nd best SPAA in-game without a doubt and saying otherwise is pure ignorance.
Are you actually getting filtered by a heli with only guns and rockets, literally just use a proxy shell or machine gun
Yeah load proximity and predict the helicopter rushers whilst compromising your effectiveness against actual tanks and/or waste time using your machine gun on the helicopters which allows enemy vehicles to get into better spots?
Helicopter rushers and especially the KA-50/52 literally are the bane of the game, they shape the entire course of the game due to their huge disruption at the start.
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i tested the agm 65 in hover mode and the range was an abysmal 3.5km at 3km altitude
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It doesn’t matter if they’re the best the maverick can also be fired outside of SPAA range and you get more of them on a better airframe
MAWS is borderline useless and i dont know why you’re bringing it up it literally gets set off by your own flares and chaff along with enemy flares and chaff you should always have it turned off
Targeting pods are vastly superior to nose optics as since you know there’s no need to fly face first into the enemy
Oh wow 2 free kills, you know the A10 at 10.3 gets 6x mavericks for 6 free kills
Its literally not i can literally just go low alt and the TOR becomes useless
Do you not have functional ears or something???
Everyone is going to laugh at you for saying this you know that right? Heli rushers haven’t been an issue since the Ka-50 got its br moved up
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well i am not laughing wile its more rare than it used to be its still a thing they just fly low and then pitch up over the battlefield were most guns and cannons cant hit them and spam away the big rockets that are far superior to hydras and if that should fail they have a very good 30mm gun
then there is the Ukraine method stay out of range and just wholly fire rockets from afar with the ccip even out of hearing range at times
the ka52 has up to 20 rockets with 63mm of high explosive pen
basically a m109 firing he shells
It doesn’t matter if they’re the best the maverick can also be fired outside of SPAA range and you get more of them on a better airframe
The AGM-65 is a subsonic missile which can easily be intercepted unlike the supersonic Kh-38, the Kh-38 is also the only air to ground missile in-game with lofting and a large warhead.
MAWS is borderline useless and i dont know why you’re bringing it up it literally gets set off by your own flares
UV MAWS can be set off by flares yes but not your own, if someone is directly flaring in front of you then ignore the MAWS warning and other than that it gives a huge amount of visual awareness in ground RB.
Targeting pods are vastly superior to nose optics as since you know there’s no need to fly face first into the enemy
The gimbal limit of the FLIR on the SU-25SM3 is pretty impressive actually and this generally doesn’t matter as you should be running the TV variants of the Kh-38 anyways.
Oh wow 2 free kills, you know the A10 at 10.3 gets 6x mavericks for 6 free kills
Key word - the minute you spawn - no vehicle should be capable of firing multiple supersonic TV guided missiles the minute the spawn in without competent SPAA engaging them.
The A-10A Late is also absolute a** as in the 11.7 environment as well, don’t be silly.
Its literally not i can literally just go low alt and the TOR becomes useless
Quite literally applies to ALL SPAA in-game, flying low will help with evading missiles inbound from enemy SPAA and no SPAA in-game has a fix to this - flying behind a hill isn’t a fault for the SPAA.
Everyone is going to laugh at you for saying this you know that right? Heli rushers haven’t been an issue since the Ka-50 got its br moved up
You must main 1.0 or something as you’re completely out of touch from what 11.7+ has actually become now, it’s a absolute mess and 9/10 games I’m in there will be a KA-50/52 rusher lurking somewhere.
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well the only aa that can deal with low flying targets is the Pantsir Tunguska and otomatic (which cant deal with long range targets)
why E vs W?
i found u not a GSB player
Please cry for each country individually, instead of dividing them artificially into East and West, GRB has no fixed group of countries.
Then you will find that of the popular countries, Germany has the worst CAS, far behind the United States and the Soviet Union.
Among the niche countries, Japan has the worst CAS (or lack of CAS) and Israel has the worst AA.
You just use East vs West as an excuse for you to cry America, you don’t care about the real lack of ability. The GRB has no bloc binding, and both the red and blue sides may have countries from the East or the West.
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germany is just bad the flarakrad belongs at 11.0 at most
having 2 ready to fire missiles with long reload and no gun just isn’t cutting it
air well lets not speak about it only the mig29/mig29g is good i have been told
the puma is mostly a joke
leopards are good tam2c is decent but not has good has a cv90120
seams like Germany only has leopards and aa at top tier 10.3+
Doesn’t apply to SPAAs with IR missiles or guns
Please cry for each country individually, instead of dividing them artificially into East and West, GRB has no fixed group of countries
Definition of dense, I’m not pairing both Russia and China together but I’m saying they’re on average better than the US or UK for example for when it comes to SPAA and CAS, please learn the difference.
I’m quite literally a Chinese main anyways, I have no real reason to be bias besides acknowledging that some nations suffer whilst others don’t.
Then you will find that of the popular countries, Germany has the worst CAS, far behind the United States and the Soviet Union
Germany gets paired with the US far more than they get paired with the USSR, this also effects the US and we shouldn’t forget that this is a discussion about SPAA mainly and why it’s important for nations to get SPAA near or on the level to the Pantsir/Tor.
A nation having a poor SPAA platform leads to CAS to overperform, a fix to all of this would be to introduce a Pantsir/Tor level of SPAA for Western nations.
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They could start by actioning the currently outstanding reports for the FIM-92, which would go some way to closing the performance gap to the SA-13.
Maneuverability to 20~22G;
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yUohrEMuQLna
Addition of the (Photo-)Contrast Seeker range extension mechanic;
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/LbD7XSmoaAJc
Increase the seeker’s range to 6~6.5km;
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/CrgLh51VkpQZ
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Those are not what I consider top tier SPAA and that’s the main discussion, I thought someone would get it as both the Pantsir and Tor-M1 are both 11.7.
The OTOMATIC is more of a 11.0 or 10.7 level of SPAA in performance, the BR it has in-game is criminal and the same applies to the Type 81(C).
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The Pantsir has a gun though? also, nations like Japan have IR missile carriers as their top tier SPAA
and the flarakrad should be 11.0 at most
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The Pantsir has a gun though? also, nations like Japan have IR missile carriers as their top tier SPAA
Those guns for the Pantsir are somewhat small calibres to ones found on the 2S38 and OTOMATIC meaning the range is quite limited, I doubt someone is going to fly incredibly low and close to a Pantsir and close enough for it to get a nice gun resolution on it.
Logically speaking, 99% of your skills with the Pantsir will be from the missiles and the guns are mostly a niche thing.
also, nations like Japan have IR missile carriers as their top tier SPAA
“The OTOMATIC is more of a 11.0 or 10.7 level of SPAA in performance, the BR it has in-game is criminal and the same applies to the Type 81 (C )”