“Scientific wild ass guess.”
It’s just odd that when the developers have to estimate something from the Soviets/Russians the values are best case scenarios. Total coincidence I’m sure.
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I believe he is saying that the handling room at the base of the barbette is modelled as part of the ammo-rack. Meaning if you penetrate the barbette, which due to some issue SAP shells far below necessary penetration can do as well as plain old AP, then you can detonate the ammunition through the barbette.
IRL this is almost entirely mitigated on almost every ship by interlocking mechanisms and flash-tight zones.
(I’m like two days late to this conversation, my apologies)
Dunkerque makes sense for the current meta. Obvs I’m hoping it arrives to the live server a little more survivable than it currently is-- if it’s a 7.0, it should be an upgrade to the effectiveness of Lorraine/Bretagne, not a sidegrade. Right now with all of its issues on the dev, it doesn’t feel like that much of a step up, though the increase in speed is appreciated.
Ideally, Richelieu will come alongside the later interwar ships, perhaps alongside the Littorio/VV class.
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welp i tried my best doing those report but sadly i dont have any official docs about the shell of the dunkerque so yep half a day of work in the wind i guess …
I wrote this and then Dunkerque got moved to 6.7 on the Dev server LMAO
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yeah it is one of the things that has anoyed me from the 3 navel addtions we have gotten is that i feel that most people were hoping for some proper 7.0 ships but to get some non meta ships is a shame
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You mentioned that the 330 mm OPF follows the same principles as the 305 mm and 340 mm shells. However, the design principle that was to be shared across these shells is that they were meant to be omni-purpose and combined both the functions of the armor piercing and the semi-armor piercing shell (Jordan & Dumas, 2009, pp. 68–69). A variable delay fuse based on shell impact allowed it to penetrate heavy and light armor plating based on how the shell decelerates.
This is probably why there is so much confusion over whether the shell is SAP or AP; the shell was designed to fulfill both roles of SAP and AP. It may be correct that these are not true AP shells, but it is incorrect to classify them as purely SAP shells when they were designed to fulfill both purposes of a SAP and AP shell.
Also, where do you exactly draw the line between SAP and AP shells? Let’s say you have an AP shell and you gradually increase the shell filler and cavity, reduce the size of the AP cap, etc… When does the AP shell become a SAP shell? Let’s assume the developer’s estimation is correct and we have an AP cap figure that takes up 3-4% of the shell weight. The filler also takes up 3-4% of the shell weight (Campbell & Campbell, 1985, p. 279-280). From the developer’s estimation, the AP cap might be too small for it to be AP, but from the measured shell filler, it is more than typical AP but also much less than typical SAP. The developer’s estimation might be true, but it does not rule out the idea that these shells were designed to fulfill both purposes of SAP and AP. In fact, you would expect similar characteristics from such a design.
If all of this is acceptable, it would be reasonable to set the 330 mm OPf Mle 1935 shell penetration between the current in-game SAPCBC and the alternate APCBC values.
Sources:
Campbell, J., & Campbell, N. J. M. (1985). Naval Weapons of World War Two.
Jordan, J., & Dumas, R. (2009). French Battleships, 1922-1956.
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I feel you could literally resurrect the gun designer, march him into Gaijin’s office with his original blueprints, and they’d claim he wasn’t a valid source.
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Absolutely.
I’m not an expert on Caracciolo so I’m not sure how it ended up at 6.7 but it sounds like it is also being cursed with SAP only, maybe that’s why?
It’s very amusing that Dunkerque is now 6.7, it’s clear that Gaijin intended for it to be 7.0 but they made it so weak with the SAP ruling and explosive magazines that now it’s still not filling the 7.0 gap.
I guess France will have to wait for Strasbourg then???
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Yes and no. The strasbourg will have better armor yes but also same design and shell so basicly it will be the same story with slightly better armor
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dont loose your time that was i tried to explain to them that it’s not really a SAP neither an AP but mostly an APCBC with a weird fuze and design made for lighter target and they refused it so …
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yeah this is my main problem i am not vastly knowledgeable about non british boats but i was realy hoping for a late retrofit of the QE class or and early to mid KGV
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Looks like this shell can be clarified either as SAP or AP, and both options would be “historical”.
But in France case for balance reasons they should go for AP. And that’s not even a question why. France needs to be more competitive at the top tier, simple as that.
Also those guns feels very inaccurate, like 380/410mm guns?
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Well, I accept Gaijin’s explanation, and as Dunkerque buffed to 6.7, I think it is okay for SAP.
Besides, accuracy… The real gun was terrible too due to quadruple mounting. And for test, horizontal dispersion is okay, while vertical disperson is meh.
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well lets hope they dont butcher the KGV’s with there quad turrets but we might be year or more away from them coming so i will have forgoten by then
Yeah. It seems intentionally hostile toward the paying customers who have been begging for a useable top tier. “Yeah, we’ll give out new rank 6s, but we didn’t say they’d be any good.” I could never imagine them forcing a nation to have no competitive top tier airplane for over a year and then give something barely worth playing (unless you play germany then you can imagine that ig lmao).
At least, despite the issues, Dunkerque seems like she’ll be better than Kongo if the SAP gets buffed. Hopefully Richelieu doesn’t also get saddled with that stupid SAP rendering her a waste.
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The thing that realy proves they have no concept on what makes a ship good is the scharnhorst as it is still one of the best ships in the game and it came back in december of 2021 which is going to be 3 years in 2 months
Scharnhorst at first appeared was not that OP. In the SAP/HE meta it’s a ship with needle and easy flooding, only little more powerful than 6.3 imperial ships. Problem is not adding Scharnhorst itself but Gaijin focusing on filling gap between Arizona/Marlborough/Bayern and Alaska/Hood/Scharnhorst.
would its reload and gun handling not have made it pretty decent as those are some of its standout features to me from my time playing slow fireing guns with poor gun hadling
Well if Gaijin would follow historical accuracy then HMS Hood guns would be some of the most accurate in the game, but we all know that’s not the case. Every shell goes to a different post code…
So I don’t think historical reasons should apply for Dunkerque. Either all guns should get historical treatment or non.
If I’m not wrong they balance battleship guns by calibre, the bigger calibre the more dispersion.
So Dunkerque should be pretty accurate compared to 14,15,16 inch guns.
Yeah vertical dispersion is pretty bad.
Funny things is that the datamine from few years ago(or more) showed that the Soviet 305mm guns had the lowest dispersion. I wonder if that’s the case still?
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