Don’t just change M82 velocity, add the large filler M82 as well

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
108

I drew up what I think the rounds should be a bit back, would like your thoughts on it.

Solid AP/APC/APBC/APCBC:
Generally slightly better pen then APHE, and more damage inside their spall cone.

APHE/APHEC/APHCBC/APHECBC:
Overall slightly less pen then solid AP, but having its current ‘sphere of death’, as many call it. Damage is slightly less then solid AP, but with, again, the sphere of death.

APDS:
What it currently is, but buffed damage inside its spall cone, but not to the level of solid AP. Reduced chances to shatter, though.

APCR:
Roughly the same post-pen as APDS, but worse angle pen and overall pen. Still high pen, basically the specialty round you have when you need to punch through a heavy’s armor.

HEAT/HEAT-FS:
High pen, and high damage on anything the jet actually touches (i.e. ammo, crew, etc.) Very good at starting fires and cooking off ammo.

HESH:
Extremely good against angles, and thick armor in general. Would have a chance to overpressure, around the same as HE, but within a smaller radius.

HE:
Basically same as current, haha 155mm big boom.

APFSDS:
No idea, because I admittedly dont have it yet, and so cant really speak about it.

1 Like
109

US tanks are simply better, that’s why they get higher BRs ;)

110

No, german tanks are undertiered to give germany 70% winrates on every br range.

2 Likes
111

Also a blantant lie.

112

Germany does not have a 70% winrate at any BR except maybe top tier.

The players are notoriously bad below rank V.

1 Like
113

K2’s video is not agree

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114

Does that video specify any BRs/tanks that were used?

I can guarantee that Germany does not have a 70% winrate at any BR below rank VI.

115

He made new video with stastistics for ewvery BR. Not only for top tier as in first one.

1 Like
116

US tanks have a higher skill ceiling but a higher skill floor.

117

The sphere of death shouldn’t exist, since it’s just not physically possible.
It’s also not necessary when the requirements for kills don’t involve knocking out the entire crew.

The point of APHE is to fracture the shell to have a “greater” effect behind the armor plate.
However it’s not something that could be relied on. It was more like a gimmick.
More often than not, it didn’t work because the fuze didn’t function or was simply destroyed, especially when impacting sloped armor.
Even when the fuze worked, the delay was a completely different problem, since the delay is based on the residual velocity. It could explode after 30cm or 3m, depending on the target and the fuze.
Then the damage would vary wildly due to the differences in shell weight, residual velocity, explosive filler but also the shape of the cavity.

In WT a 122mm APHE will overpressure a vehicle but in reality it’s like a 10kg HE round with a mere 160g filler exploded in the vehicle.

Spoiler

122mm_BR_471B_APHE
122mm_BR_471B_APHE1918×924 45.6 KB

That’s like a German stick grenade, except it carries a 10kg fragmentation sleeve instead of one that weighs 200-300g.

The point is that a 122mm, APHE or not is going cause enough internal damage to disable and destroy a vehicle.
And that’s how it should be.
Not half of the crew repairing completely destroyed gun controls in 30s or continue fighting with a 122mm diamter hole in their armor with no trace of the optic left.

So regardless whether APHE deals more damage or not, and works all the time or only under certain cicumstances, the goal should be to change the damage mechanics that APHE is practically not needed.

1 Like
118

Wait, is this change a good thing or not?

119

The sphere of death shouldn’t exist, since it’s just not physically possible

…and?

I want balance and fun, not dogmatic realism, damnit. My idea makes the ammunition types generally balanced, but having enough differences between them that each has pros and cons. It may not be realistic, but it brings variety and balance.

120

Nothing is fun about the sphere of death since it nails everything inside the tank. Even “weakened” as you say its still going to hit every single crew member and internal module with shrapnel.

121

Of course, it provides that with APHE you kill a lot and easily and with other bullets you kill if the game wants, that is true fun (for those who use APHE).

122

Maybe one day gaijin will realize that to a large extent realism is the best way to balance damage.

123

I am pretty sure I addressed what would happen to the other rounds- solid AP would be better then APHE within its spall cone.

124

And what is fun about a complete lack of ammunition variety…?

125

With realistic damage, the difference between an AP and an APHE would be that the APHE would make a slightly larger cone of damage, whereas the AP with the slightly smaller cone would travel more meters inside the tanks since, by not exploding, the bullet It has not fragmented as much. This would make them somewhat similar bullets but at the same time having visible differences in the damage. Apart from this, of course the damage of the other bullets would have to be corrected: Tungsten carbide bullets with fragmentation practically the same as the AP, tungsten alloy bullets with somewhat less fragmentation than carbide ones, HEAT and HEAT-FS with damage depending on the remaining penetration after piercing the tank (if there is at least 100mm of penetration left over when piercing, it would have spalling somewhat less than one AP, increasing the damage if the excess penetration increases or decreasing the damage as the excess penetration decreases.
Of course along with this should come changes to the Br of almost all tanks, and in some cases the restriction of initial tank APCRs to a few shots.

126

With this APHE and AP would have barely any difference, and AP would 90% of the time have higher pen.

Also ammo limitations are dumb, shouldnt exist (except om gep, since that has a proper reason)

Yours ends up with a lot of rounds that are very, very similar, wheras with mine you get:

  • Actual round variety, makes there substantial upsides and downsides to both APHE, AP, APCR, HEAT, and APDS.

From a game design perspective I find your idea abhorrent- most of the rounds in function will be nearly idential. I dont want AP and APHE to almost be the same, I want them to be clearly different sidegrades to each other.

127

Both the 75mm and the 76mm and the American 90mm barrel have AP and APHE ammunition, and in those three cases the APHE pierces more. The fact that the AP pierces more than the APHE in many cases is due more to the barrel than to what be AP or APHE.

This would be somewhat realistic, since in WW2 tanks on all sides used small amounts of APCR because it was an expensive metal.In any case, this would mean that those same small tanks would not be able to use APCR as much, and would have to reserve them for specific objectives.

From experience the current variety of ammunition is based on that, if you can use APHE because it is by far the ammunition that kills the most, if you are limited to using only AP you are at a disadvantage, if you can use HEAT the game will decide whether you kill or not regardless of wherever you shoot, if you use APCR it is because you are crazy, if you use APDS and APDS-FS you will do reasonable damage although sometimes the game will decide that your bullet does not make any fragments. This would be how the game’s damage model is right now, and honestly it’s a real piece of garbage. What’s the point of having a variety of bullets when in the end you can only try to use APHE.