That has been my main stance in this entire thread :)
Absolutely the best option yes :)
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The problem is these reports sit on the bug report page and have yet to be implemented. A lot of people are more than happy to accept fixes to things they can change (bulkhead, turret ring, gun shield, etc), but there is still no action. And I would have thought since an Abrams of any kind came last update, that they would try to implement some of these fixes to line up with the last update, still no changes. So people circle back to this topic.
I am not up to date with this entire drama but are there any documents hinting at how big of an improvement the DU hull is armor wise?
True. And to be honest I think bringing whatever we have here can help with hopefully having changes made. Still kinda baffles me how we got the same hull for like what? 10 different Abrams?
If I’m not mistaken there’s nothing that points to how much more effective the DU hulls could be. But we do have (in other topics, bug reports etc) that the armor has definitely changed and with some rough calculations how much. If I recall correctly there was a topic few months back of someone who calculated the armor increase in the hulls of the Abrams based on the weight increase per generation and weight of materials.
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How is he patient? He just says no, because of his own, very specific interpretation that doesn’t follow the rules of interpretation of official/legal documents, where a single term has only 1 meaning. If document is listing improved composite hull, and in other case, heavy armor hull, it’s clear as day hull “heavy armor” has to be significantly different ftom “improved composite”.
And since “heavy armor” can be added to hull OR turret (since the document stated it’s been added to hull AND turret) it’s clear both received an armor upgrade based on similar technology and materials.
Truth is, Gaijin doesn’t want Abrams to be buffed, period. This whole talk is just cat having an argument with mouse. Cat can do whatever he wants, and will get applauded by “community” which is too scared to lift their heads anyway, and I’m fairly certain I’m heading for a ban right now. Cheers
It’s more so that they don’t want to do the work needed to actually fix the issues, which is why the reload buff (10 RPM > 12RPM) was implemented, in place of trying to address any of the existing reports that might fix things.
Further there isn’t anything available that really quantifies any such improvement in terms of the Array’s protective qualities, for the interim models between the Baseline M1 and Swedish export Hull(M1A2). And Gaijin refuses to estimate (or even interpolate) these things for arbitrary reasons.
if you guys all donate $10 or so to me ill buy a abrams and measure it for buffz pinky promise
All we can hope for is for more images of the captured M1A1SAs to be posted, specifically showing the armor arrays and their composition. Other than that, like you said, Gaijin is unwilling to do guesswork and they won’t accept guesswork from the community.
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All we’ve got (for now)is the array from the M1150 Assault Breacher Vehicle from Ukraine which likely uses an export Amour package.
We don’t actually have a cross-section available for the turret for a direct comparison, but the Hull is somewhat similarly configured.
But you would think that with Gaijin’s access to Russia, it shouldn’t be that had to go see the Hulls on display and take some measurements. And it’s strange they have taken no such action.
I am not sure if that would go unnoticed, officially Gaijin tries to stay neutral, going to Russia and requesting access to see and measure destroyed western equipment would probably rise a few eyebrows. Besides, I don’t think visual confirmation is holding them back, maybe tech mod team side, but even if we had a 1000% confirmation of an M1A2 hull being more than just 360mm of 70s composite tech, it would still be up to Gaijin to decide if they want to implement it or not, so ultimately I think all of this debate is pointless.
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it was brought up but the devs were wrong
as proven within a day of them posting it Community Bug Reporting System
That doesn’t prove any upgrades to armor in the hull though.
Same as the limits removed. It allows for that to happen but doesn’t automatically mean that it did in fact happen.
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yes, but the devs have thrown out every source for upgraded hull armor under that faulty reasoning
to this day there has never been a source that actually proves hull DU
yes, but there are tons of sources proving the hull armor has been upgraded
Why not just admit that you’re following the Gaijin guidelines and doing everything possible to prevent the Abrams from getting stronger based on circumstantial evidence? The documents provided by the player clearly show that SEP and SEP V2 should have uranium armor in their hulls, but that’s not in Gaijin’s interest, so you’re trying to persuade the players that they’re mistaken, even though that’s not true.
It’s not faulty reasoning, it’s standard logic for any science.
You are not limited or stopped from buying 500 cats, that must mean that you have 500 cats right now in your house right?
is throwing out sources that prove the armor was improved because they dont say suspension was improved, and then throwing out sources that say suspension was improved because they dont say armor was improved not extremely fault reasoning
especially because included in that is them throwing out sources that say both were improved
I have not personally seen any direct proof of DU in the hull.
I would have no issues with adding armor upgrades to the Abrams, i’m not required to “prevent the Abrams from getting stronger”, i’m completely free to my own opinions on vehicles and what i think they should or should not get in-game.
I’ve taken larger part in trying to gather sources for this (read through the main Gaijins Official Answer for the Abrams armor and you’ll see my comments in there), the IRIS-T SLM and the JAS39E , i try to judge sources based on Gaijins standard and if i think they would pass the standard for reporting or not. You are free to look at my comments in the IRIS-T SLM and the JAS39E threads, i have done the exact same for those threads and the JAS39 serries is one of my absolute favourite vehicles.
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I have already stated several times in this thread that i think that there is absolutely proof of the armor increasing for several of the Abrams and that should get an increase in armor.
What i have seen no direct proof of is the DU in the hull. Though i really do fail to see how that is the important part if an increase in armor can be proven to begin with.