They never did the design studies for the lower thickness plates, though. We don’t have the necessary level of documentation on precisely how the ships would have been built with domestically produced armor; only the originally intended layout with the import plates since, once again, the project was cancelled
Based on what Russia could produce at the time, it’d likely be two lesser thickness plates layered behind one another, resulting in about a 15 to 20% less effectiveness.
Right but we don’t have documents for that. We don’t have a complete record of the changes made, any additions or subtractions to account for changes in displacement, testing of scale prototypes based on the new design and so on.
Any best-guess estimate of a Sovetsky Soyuz-class that ‘could have’ been built (as opposed to the current implementation of one that ‘would have’ been built if the armor was available and everyone involved didn’t have much better things to do) would be completely fictional. Historical speculative fiction, yes, but fiction nonetheless. And at that point; why even bother restricting what napkin drawings can make it into the game at all?
We don’t need to have them. It’s easy supposition based on what the Russian naval industry could produce at the time of her implied construction. Assuming 1943 or '44 for completion (as the project’s construction began in the late 1930s, iirc 1939), the russian naval industry wouldn’t be able to produce - or procure - such plates of correct thickness for Soyuz.
Meaning that they would improvise two plates, likely layered, and half the thickness of the initially planned plates individually. It’s not like Pr23 would suddenly become worthless if it’s armor was modeled as such in warthunder when it already has guns that are heavily overperforming based on initial trials.
Edit
It’s not like there isn’t already a dozen ‘fictional’ ships in warthunder, either due to design inaccuracies or equipment that didn’t actually exist on these ships in real life. Really odd card to pull because Soyuz is so grossly overperforming that it’s not funny.
At any expert out here; I’m bit confused, the the jean bart is going to at 8.3 (?) liket the TT ones, but top naval is 8.7? Then why are people complaining that it should not be premnium that is a actual top tier pack? And what is the problem that it is a prem?
Current France is 8.3.
1 Like
It’s not about the ship’s performance, that’s what Battle Ratings and lineup balancing are for. If it’s really that bad they can put it up to 9.7 and let that cap how many can be in a match.
And it doesn’t matter if we can be fairly sure that it would’ve been built a certain way, we don’t have the plans that would say how it would be laid out. I’d imagine most inaccuracies on ships that were built with regards to their implementation in the game probably come from adhering too close to the “as-built” blueprints and copying inaccuracies found on them; since in almost all cases it’s not as though they can go and check the real ship to be sure.
If the R2Y2s, completely fictional modifications of an existing prototype that were ‘easy suppositions’ based on what the Japanese aviation industry ‘would have been able to produce’, aren’t acceptable, then an easily extrapolated modification of an already laid down design shouldn’t be acceptable either
Yet they haven’t. They won’t. Soyuz can tank multiple 46cm APCBC salvos while it can instantly kill most ships it sees with SAP.
You literally need to pixel hunt the damn thing at most ranges in order to do any actual damage while it can mindlessly sail forward at a slight angle and ignore anything that isn’t an Iowa or another Soyuz. I wish this was hyperbole.
Ho-Ri: hold my beer. Granted, it’s a premium but the point is still relevant.
The R2Y2 removal made no sense other than a flimsy excuse but that’s my opinion.
We don’t have plans for the E100 to use the mausturm. WHICH IT USES IN WARTHUNDER. Something it couldn’t do in real life because the poor suspension would destroy itself due to the weight.
Edit
The point being is ‘historical accuracy’ only seems to matter when it fits certain vehicles and not others.
France top tier is 8.3, and in terms of battleships we can’t really go higher than that
Jean Bart just so happens to be slightly better compared to sisterships and was the latest variant, so it being premium goes against gaijin’s premium policy
Premiums should help you grind, not give you the crown jewel of the tree
3 Likes
Isn’t this because we don’t have plans for the E-100’s actual turret? There’s nothing else they could put there, so instead of inventing a fictional turret that fits into the slot in the vehicle they just slapped in the closest possible thing and handwaved it with ‘the problems would have been solved’, much like the situation with naval BRs being pushed out further than the USSR actually built anything and the Soyuz (Although it’s not like the E-100 needed to be in the game, a lot of german top tier was about as if not even more fictional back then so it was kind of par for the course)
Otherwise I think this is a case of ‘Soviet weapons designers accidentally hit upon the exact combination of traits necessary for peak performance in the war thunder meta again’ (This can probably at least partially be chalked up to Gaijin’s mode designs presumably descending from the Russian understanding of how things would play out as well, admittedly)
Five seconds of google. Armor angles and thickness too.
Ooooh, huh. I guess Gaijin just used the initial reconstructions of the blueprints. Neat.
The more important consideration is that, like Parry is imho correctly pointing out, there are no rules. And to a certain degree that’s perfectly reasonable for a corporation when it comes to their product. The pancake has a fantasy flight model and bombs because it could have carried them if it ever managed to fly, but all three R2Y2s get yeeted. This ad hoc decision making understandably results in player frustration. I wish they would stop removing vehicles, and equally that they were bolder in making soft balance changes where there are knowledge gaps that give you the margin to do it (such as Soyuz armour).
France’s best ship is officially a premium until missile ships are added