The F106’s AIM-4F/G have underwhelming performance, suffering from rapid loss of speed and poor thrust. What do you think about it?
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Yeah that’s just IRL accurate AIM-4 performance, there’s a reason why aim-9s stuck around and not them.
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Not accurate, the 9B has more thrust than the 4G even though the motor is more powerful than the 9B’s. I do not believe the IRL performance is identical to the performance in the game. Also it’s suspected to have mach 4 speeds as well
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AIm-4G has higher thrust and accelerates faster than the AIM-9B, BUT only for 0.63 seconds. After that it swaps to a low-thrust, long burn sustainer motor
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I have not seen a source for the 0,63 seconds burn time for the main motor
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The boosters and sustainers are tuned to roughly match speed/range charts
it’s accurate:
The AIM-4 is much more Draggier with similar weight (due to the new warhead being 10kg heavier than early AIM-4 variants - we don’t have those in-game) than the AIM-9B.
The diameter of the AIM-4 frame is 163mm for 1,98m length, while the 9B is having a 127mm frame for a length of 3.02 m → this greatly affect aerodynamics.
those threads give performances of both missiles (all variants), according to many sourcing done by players.
in such we can see that both AIM-4 are :
extract of discussion:
Spoiler
GAR-3A / AIM-4F
- Length: 86.365 in.
- Span: 23.970 in.
- Height: 23.970 in.
- Diameter: 6.640 in.
- Weight: 126 lb (Pre launch)
- Speed: >2.9 Mach @ 40,000 ft
- Propulsion: SRSM9-274C Two stage solid rocket motor
- Thrust: First Stage - 4420 lbf for 0.63 seconds | Second Stage - 635 lbf for 4.09 seconds
- Guidance Duration: 22 Seconds
- Warhead: 5.00 lb of HBX-3
- Contact Fuse
- Manoeuvring capability: >40Gs at sea level
- Guidance type: Radar
- Radar Band: X
- Radar Type: Pulse
- Spool Time: 16 Seconds
GAR-4A / AIM-4G
- Length: 82.5 in.
- Span: 24 in.
- Height: 24 in.
- Diameter: 6.64 in.
- Weight: 146 lb (Pre launch)
- Speed: >2.9 Mach @ 40,000 ft
- Propulsion: SRSM9-274C Two Stage Solid Rocket Motor
- Thrust: First Stage 4420 lbf for 0.63 seconds | Second Stage 635 lbf for 4.09 seconds
- Guidance Duration: 22 Seconds
- Warhead: 5.00 lb of HBX-1
- Contact Fuse
- Manoeuvring capability: >40Gs at sea level
- Guidance type: IR
- IR Band: ~
- Spool Time: 16 Seconds
while the AIM-9B:
Spoiler
- Length: 2.83 m (111.5 in)
- Finspan: 0.56 m (22 in)
- Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in)
- Weight: 70 kg (155 lb)
- Speed: Mach 1.7
- Propulsion: Thiokol MK 17 solid-fuel rocket
- Thrust: 3820lbs (1732kg) for 2.2 seconds
- Guidance duration: 20 seconds
- Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) Mark 8 Blast Fragmentation with 4.76kg (10,5lbs) HBX-1 (7,62 kg TNT)
- Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft)
- Maneuvering capability: up to 10-12g at Sea Level
- Maneuvering surface: Delta canard
- Servo torque: 750 in-lbs (84,74 Nm)
Seeker:
- FOV: 4°
- Gimbal limit: 20° (Mark 1 mod 0) 30° (Mark 1 Mod 1-14)
- Tracking rate: 11°/s
- Cooling: None
- Seeker uncage: None
- Rear Aspect only
now do math and you’ll understand what total force have been given to both missiles:
AIM-9B — 3820x2.2 = 8404lbs
AIM-4F/G — 4420x0.63 + 635x4.09 = 2784.6 + 2597.15 = 5381.75lbs
as both weights are given too:
AIM-9B : 155 Lbs
AIM-4F/G: 146 Lbs
Thrust to Weight Ratios of both missiles are:
AIM-9B : 8404/155 = 54.22 TWR
AIM-4F/G : 5381.75/146 = 36.86 TWR
So yes, i think it’s Accurate that AIM-9B beats AIM-4F/G
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there you go, a document of September 1963.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171017170051/http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/AIM-4G_Falcon_SMC_-_September_1963.pdf
and here’s the link for the AIM-4F (which is the AIM-4G but IR variant)
https://web.archive.org/web/20180307152330/http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/AIM-4F_Falcon_SMC_-_September_1963.pdf
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That is indeed correct, the thrust has now been explained. Thank you
- Thrust : Check
- Drag : Check (hence why the missile slows down heavier than AIM-9B)
Is there anything else?
A number of the G’s values differ very slightly from their SAC ones.
Well the missile was like that irl. Ingame it has a pretty op airframe for the br and an insane gun that should make up for it
welp, those numbers differs very slightly
Specific impulse is given at 215 by the game, but is 204 by SAC for exemple.
The missile is overall “A+okay” considering it’s modelization.
I would not consider any missile in this game “A+ok” lol.
i wouldn’t consider Gaijin ways to understand physics “A+ok” but it doesn’t change the fact that we have to play with how values are modeled (and often interprated) by Gaijin.
The 9B also goes mach 2.2 at sea level lol
give me more information on that,… because currently, i can find it normal under certain conditions,…
show in-game one now (with replay functionnality we can have many informations) (can be done through custom battles)
Also you can see it is slowing as fast as soon as the rocket engine is done.
so it’s about 1.5 seconds, in a situation you’ll nearly never get in-game (apart using 9B on Mirage III’s or 5’s, maybe the J-35A too)