Degem Alef M-3 (early), Israeli unstabilized Sherman

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caid’s suggestion #40

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i would like to suggest what became the standard of the Israeli tanks after the independence, the Degem Alef M-3 Sherman (early)

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the Degem Alef M-3 Sherman was the Israeli designation given in the 50s for the M4 Sherman in services with the 75mm M3 gun. been into service since 1948 in the Israeli militia, some of them, 3 exactly, saw action during the late stage of the Arab-Israeli war of 1948. while it seems the M4 105s chassis with early M34 gun mount was bought from an Italian Scrapyard, Israel had bought 30 Sherman in 1948 but 14 were ready to service but lacked of guns. the M34 mount was installed for the initial services on the first 3 tanks and got the M34A1 mount later.

they served originally in the Brigade 8, Battalion 82, Company Bet “the Anglo-Saxon Company” and were by far, the best tank in service in the region. fighting mainly obsolete light tanks, the M-3 was giving Israel a real advantage in combat.

following the war of 1948, Israel bought a lot more Sherman all around the European junkyard full of decommissioned material at cheap prices. those went to strengthen the Israeli armored forces and became the standard Israeli tank. in 1956 Israel went into a deep upgrade of their Sherman fleet by installing the SA50 gun, it was there that Sherman received a designation according to the gun’s name. the M4 (105)s having the 75mm M3 gun, became known as the M-3 Sherman.

it is important to mention this suggestion is specific for the Degem Alef from 1948-1949. those were also named M-3 after 1956. there were later the importation M4A3T and M4A4T from France which was also called Degem alef and later M-3 but those are different and had a Stabilizer while the early version were M4(105) retrofitted with 75mm and never got a stabilizer.

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Firepower

the M-3 Sherman used like his name indicate, the 75mm M3 gun . this gun being a standard US gun for the Sherman would be very familiar to the players. capable to fire the mighty APCBC-HE M61 shot who’s penetration reach 100mm at 100m , the M-3 wouldn’t deceive the players. the fire-rate of reaching 12 rounds a minute wouldn’t make it feel slow. the elevation of -10°/+25° would make it a pretty flexible gun to use in combat but the turret has no power-drive the rotation of the turret reaching 6°sec would make it slow to track the targets, especially up close. the tank carry 98 rounds for the 75mm which is over twice what a common player would need. Sadly, as the M4(105) was unstabilized and Israel only retrofitted the gun, the early versions were all unstabilized. only the later versions imported from France were stabilized.

the tank also have a 7.62mm M1919 as coaxial and another m1919 in the hull for close defence. but during the war of 1948 the Sherman wasn’t mounting the 12.7mm, those guns seemed to be installed later during the 50s

Mobility

The mobility of the Sherman is not his best feature, but it’s not lacking either. powered by Continental R975 C4 engine providing 460 hp , it remain in his best condition a decent engine. weighting 31,500 kg , the tank would be capable of reaching 38 km/h which is nothing bad. The power-weight ratio of 14.5 hp/ton , would allow the Sherman to move around decent and be where it belongs, in the frontline.

Protection

the M-3 has the main disadvantage of being a rather big target. but outside his size, the tank delivers good protection. with a hull featuring 51mm at the front with a important slope, 38mm at the side and rear , the M-3 would hard to penetrate by a frontal hit. his side being more vulnerable still can offer good protection. but there is an important detail to note on the M-3 suggested here. even if the chassis is the M4 105 late, the turret has the M34 gun shield wich was smaller, and most of the turret only gave 50mm of armor with a rather flat surface this made this particular Sherman closer to the US M4 than the M4 105 from any nation. The crew of 5 men would also allow the tank to take good damage before being destroyed. It wouldn’t be rare to survive and return fire even if you lost 1-2 crew members during a fight.

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Source

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just a quick update that i find important. after reading the information about the M4(105) and M4A3(105) I realize an important details. the tank was not stabilized.

i poked around and contacted my resource in Israel. and they confirm that in 1948-1949 the first Sherman to serve with a 75mm M-3 were not retrofitted with a stabilizer. only the guns were installed. that is an important detail to not miss when you look at this tank as it would not perform as well as the other Sherman in the game.

the turret was the one of the M4(105) and it is different from the other Sherman as it has no power-drive. this is not mentioned anywhere that Israel installed the power drive in those tanks. which allows us to assume the rotation would be much slower than the regular Sherman.

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3

Seems like a good option for a potential Israeli Rank III medium, could work at 3.0 similar to the Sherman 105? Regardless an interesting vehicle that would 100% have a place in game and be very easy for Gaijin to impliment.

+1

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4

more like rank II.

this is more complicated to add than people might think. but still, if they tank the existing Sherman, they have half the work already done

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5

Here is an interesting photo, which appears to show two of the early M-3s with the M4 (105) hull armed with BESA machine gun on the roof.

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I had seen this modification on the late M-3s with the M4A4 hull but not the early version, so I guess it’s worth considering for this suggestion too, to add a bit more flare.

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6

GO Israel! +1

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those are not an early M3 but a late M3 Degem Alef

It is probably one of those
12x M4A3 and 2X M4A1 from Philipines in 1950 and finally 40x M4A4T from France in 1951 & 1952

The early ones are, in fact, M4A3 (105), which was apparently sold unarmed and refitted with an M34 gun mount and 75mm M3 gun.

your photo shows the M34A1 gun mount for the 75mm (by the way both are 75mm Sherman)

The difference is that the early version does not have the electric turret drive or the stabilizer for the gun. That means the turret has a manual rotation and the gun is unstabilized. so the turret is slow to turn, and the tank is bad in offensive maneuvers. it still has the same armor, mobility, and firepower, it’s just less effective in combat. that also make them unique even if it’s not obvious from the outside.

those in your picture have the turret drive and the stabilizer for sure.

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8

Interesting, I know you prioritized the M4A4T model in your (late) suggestion, but maybe people would also enjoy having the option to vote for the M4A3 as well.

Even though like you said, the M4A4T was serviced in greater numbers, the large driver hatch bulges on the front make for easy weakpoints that could be negated with the M4A3 model.

1 Like
9

feel free to suggest it. i didn’t hide the fact the M3 Degem Alef was the name for all Sherman with the 75mm and only favored the M4A4T because it was more numerous but any of them would do for me. at the end, it’s Gaijin that decides which one it will pick. it is usually taking in consideration the community’s choice when it has very similar options like this

you can use my source if you need it for a suggestion.

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