Dassault Rafale - Variants, Characteristics, Armament and Performance

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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1374

I really shouldn’t need to point out how flight performance is not the only thing that sabotages the platform. The flight performance is amongst the easiest to bring up to parity without refactoring several aspects of the code base, which is one reason to focus on it.

We currently have missiles with a fraction the range of the competition (inaccurately), and 6 of them. They are prone to spinning out in short range dogfight launches, and burning all their energy in longer range launches. This is another aspect that hinders it, in the face of aircraft with notably longer range ordnance, and just shy of twice the carried missiles. This part would need several refactors (or other solutions) to bring up to where it should be, which would resolve that limitation of the platform, even with the smaller count it would then become competitive at the ranges it ought to be.

Bunch of other features have not been introduced that would help it, at least in Sim. But that’s more effort to discuss than I cbf.

The platform is likely to suffer quite poorly against EFTs and F15Es, on account of payload inaccuracies. Flight performance is just the easiest aspect to complain about without going down a rabbit hole, and at least bringing it to parity would allow for easier use of said payload in the short range, with less poor launches.

1375

I mean the devs are aware and are fixing it so

1376

Great, they going to fix the gimped weapons?

1377

Its not even that much worse than the EFT tho, and its advantages/disadvantages in reference to the EFT are as expected. Its slower, it accelerates worse, it loses the rate, and wins the 1c. Its missiles are better in CQB and worse at range, and its radar is better.

Its unlikely the performance of the rafale vs the EFT is going to change much, the EFT will have its FM fixed, as will the rafale, both will have their radars fixed, etc… The performance bump will be compared to other jets in-game, not compared to the EFT most likely.

1378

There is much more to how a platform performs than the FM.
For example, when the Su-27 first came out it was regarded as being very good because of its weapons kit, despite the horrible flight model.

Rafale can have the best flight model but if Gaijin doesn’t give it a good loadout, it will still be horrible.

4 Likes
1379

I think what scares the Rafale enjoyers is that we expected earlier EFT tranches with. 8 AAMs instead of the 10 on on the later tranches (from my limited knowledge). And that that can carry a full AG load with those 10 missiles when the rafale needs to forgo 2 of it’s limited amount. With the AIM120 being better than the MICA at any range higher than 10km, its pretty obvious that a 4-6 AIM120 + some more IR missiles versus 6 MICA is going to destroy the Rafale in most engagements. We already had this issue (all countries) versus the recent F15E, but the EFT just compound the issue for France (and all countries that don’t have EFT or F15E to be fair)

1380

At Subsonic speeds, close coupled canards perform much better in-terms of maneuverability both STR and ITR as well as reducing drag contributing to energy retention. A dogfight is almost always going to be at Subsonic speeds. The Eurofighter is a much better platform for BVR combat but is not as optimized for Subsonic.

1 Like
1381

Only 6x MICA-EM with unimpressive range against EFT with AIM-120s.
Rafale doesn’t even get IR missiles right now.
There is a clear gap ignoring flight performance.

1382

6 gimped MICA EM*

They’re failing not just in range.

3 Likes
1383

The only BVR missile other than the MICA EM for Rafale is the Meteor
Which probably won’t be coming until 2026 lol.

1384

The MICAs we have do not function even remotely well as they should. This isn’t a “We need meteor” comment. We just need MICA to be unfucked across the board.

1385

Yeah, I understand.
But I was just saying that if Gaijin didn’t unnerf the MICA we would be stuck with this until the Meteor to have an Fox 3 with actual good range.

1386

Ah yea. I get that. Bit tired and get a bit miffed when I think of the sorry state of French missiles across the board.

1387

There’s still the MICA NG which might come first in game for balance reason

2 Likes
1388

they will struggle to model that thing lmao

1389

VERY likely a balancing factor considering the MICA is by FAR he best close range missile, and the M2K is also notably the best in electronic subsytems and one of the best in flight performance in-game atm. I understand the MICA is underperforming, I doubt itll get any buff in said regards until the C-5 and R-77-1 are added.

None of the other fox 3’s can even be used in dogfight launches, and the spinning out isn’t a MICA thing, its a TVC thing, likely aggravated by how hard the MICA can pull in-game.

There is like, 1 relevant aircraft with twice the carried load (Su-27SM) and it cant compete in BVR because its radar is tantamount to asking the wind to find the enemy. Most aircrafts you’ll actually face have equal missile loads (F-16, Gripen, MiG-29SMT), or 33% more (F-15, EFT, J-10A). This is once again a situation of pretending like the Rafale is significantly worse off than it is.

The rafale is vastly more competitive at close to medium ranges than all other jets in-game tho. Old graphs, so potentially outdated at this point (tho iirc, there hasnt been any major missile changes since these were made):

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The MICA is not only competitive, but actually the leader in hit speed below 11.5/18/25km, and has a lower time to target below ~20/30/45km at alts of 100/6000/9000m when compared to the current “top” missile, the AIM-120A. All while MASSIVELY out-pulling every competitor. It does begin to fall off quite steeply beyond those ranges, but it is once again, nowhere near as bad as you say it is.

Like what? Its the only fighter atm with friendly IFF in the HUD (tho many other jets should get it too), its going to be the only jet in-game with an AESA radar, it has MAWS, which almost no jets in-game have, it has more CM’s than most jets in-game, and has a fantastic IRST that doubles as a TGP for long range identification and acquisition without any RWR warnings. Sim-wise, its just about the most stacked jet in-game atm.

It was never going to beat the EFT or F-15E in BVR, even with the improved missiles, unless the AESA its getting gives it a massive situational awareness advantage which leads to always being the first to find a target and the first to fire. In a dogfight though, its likely winning vs both. The EFT having to gain separation in a dogfight to use any of its missiles, while the F-15E not only doesnt really have dogfight missiles, but also would just lose in flight performance as well as situational awareness entering the dogfight.

Im not saying the Rafale doesnt have things needing to be fixed, but its REALLY not as hard done by as you seem to think. Its missile load is just on the lower end, though not unusual, and it trades significant close range advantages for inferior long range ones, which, considering how much better the MICA is than everything else at close range, is unsurprising.

Also to keep in mind, the EFT and F-15E aren’t the only thing you’ll be facing, particularly if you play sim. F-16C, J-10B, Gripens, Su-27’s are all likely other potential aircrafts you’ll likely face.

Either way, not sure why I’m wasting my time discussing this in a Rafale thread, where the responses will all be negative or biased in favor of the Rafale lmao.

1 Like
1390

Yeah not really. It’s capped at 32 flares for now (16 drops), which is abysmal by high tier standard. We might get 72 normal flares, but even then they drop by 2. 36 drops total is pretty average at best at top tier

5 Likes
1391

Most of mate’s arguments are dubious at best. Someone else can deal with them, I’m taking a nap.

1 Like
1392

Ur right, i made a mistake on that end, my bad.

1393

Kinda bold to state that when you support a claim that has a mockup for source which is invalid as mockups are made by industrials (here MBDA) which reflects in no way the intentions of the makers of the plane aka Dassault, neither do they reflect the intention of deciders of the future of the plane in France aka DGA.
Also as a proof of my claim, you can roam the internet looking for a payload where Rafale has anything else besides nothing or fuel tanks on the said fuel tank pylon and except in 3D renders, simulations or anything that is not real life you will never find any picture of a Rafale with weaponry on those pylons.

1 Like