Careful, using EFT sources to bug report the Rafale might break the space-time Continuum :P
2 Likes
When academic literature sources talk about AESA radars and its features, its understood to apply to AESA radars in general. So it is the rule rather than the exception. Luckily the source describing AESA radars having multiple beams for space exploration is written directly by multiple Thales/Thomson-CSF engineers who make the RBE2 radars (Thomson-CSF became Thales).
6 Likes
I think that has to do with how gaijin handles G-overloads now. It seems to not matter how many G’s are pulled, it’s how long you are pulling over the structural limit. Pre-nerf EF could also do this with SB controls, even now with SB controls and trim it can pull way harder than the instructor allows. All this is to say the crazy G pulls are not uniquely a Rafale problem.
Interesting theory… Unfortunately for you, its pretty unlikely.
Set the fuel load to 56% (same proportion of fuel as on the Rafale at 20min) and blew both wings clean off.
Every other jet I tested (F-15E, F-16C, Su-27SM, J-10A) survived the test, but unlike the EFT and Rafale, they can’t pull nearly as hard.
Could in theory argue that the F-15E/16C are pulling more than their supposed limits too I guess (stated 9.0g x 1.5 = 13.5G in-game limit), but seeing as both those planes are “only” pulling 15.3G and 16.1G, those could technically fall within limits if gaijin has docs stating the structural limits of each is 11G (not overly farfetched, but afaik not true). Su-27 test wasnt shown since it doesnt have a G-load indicator in the HUD.
The Rafale though, is most definitely pulling WELL above any possible structural limits any real document may state it to have. On the “low” end of the G’s I’ve routinely survived with the jet (21.1G), it would reliable documentation for a structural limit of 14.07G. On the high end (24.6G), it would need a reliable documentation for a structural limit of 16.4G, which is just about at the 16.5G it should be snapping its wings at in-game, seeing as its structural limit is stated to be 11G in emergencies.
1 Like
With some update gaijin made it “pull more and wait”
1 Like
Didnt have to wait for the EFT wings to come off.
Pull more and wait could make sense in the case of the F-15/16, seeing as they were “only” pulling 1.5-2.5G more than they should if the stated 9G limit is the one gaijins using, and they’re only doing so for no more than half a second. It doesn’t make sense when you’re pulling 4.8-8.1G over what your in-game G-limit should be like the Rafale.
Don’t use the HUD indicator for testing; They are broken on some planes and show incorrect numbers.
WTRTI / internal webserver is more reliable.
1 Like
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
Why we talk more about the EFT than the Rafale on this Rafale topic?
3 Likes
Very nice shots
1 Like
Nice !!
Afaik the structural limit applied by gaijin is according to the empty weight of aircraft + weight of a full load of fuel, then applying the specified limits multiplied by 1.5x unless otherwise stated.
So that is what should be tested against.
Most aircraft can exceed these limits for a few seconds at the specified limit before the failure occurs.
For example, The specified limit of the Typhoon limit is 9.0g, multiplied by 1.5, equals 13.5g, however the eurofighter will break its wings almost instantly at 12.5g with a full fuel load and no weapons. So it is likely underperforming in that region.
If the Rafael is able to exceed the limits indefinitely (which can be tested using trim controlls to avoid pilot g limits) then it should be reported as a bug. I don’t have the aircraft and I don’t know what the g limit is specified as.
2 Likes
9G is is not what it is limited to. 9G is what the aircraft is designed to operate at which is something setting it appart from previous aircraft including the teen series for example.
Just becaue most air superiority fighters since the 70s operate between -3G and +9G does not mean that they all do it with the same degree of ease, especially as payload and altitude are considered.
I do not know the structural limit but 9G is supposed to be normal territority for as long as the pilot may take it.
In this regard, both the Typhoon and Rafale should be near identical (Within a few G)
If the Rafale is able to pull 20+G without snapping and the Typhoon breaks after only 12G. Then either the Rafale is massively overperforming or the Typhoon is massively underperforming.
In the absence of other 1+TWR delta Canards like the Gripen E. Comparing the Typhoon and Rafale is ideal for this
2 Likes
I don’t think anyone was ever talking about anything other than the theoretical structural limit.
Its 12G btw, which should put its in-game G-limit to 18G vs the Rafales 11G irl and supposed 16.5G in-game.
Spoiler
Interestingly, this source used in a Rafale bug report also suggests the Rafale has a lower G-onset than the EFT, 12G/s vs 15G/s.
2 Likes
Does warthunder model G onset? Might be something worth reporting
Idk if gaijin models it, and I’m not exactly sure what it would actually look like either.
If I understand it correctly, it should mean the EFT would be ~25% quicker to execute maneuvers than the Rafale, most likely specifically ones in the pitch direction. But realistically speaking, I dont think itd make much of a difference gameplay-wise unless it was high skilled opponents, probably specifically dueing 1c fights.
Theres a possibility that the EFT’s higher G-onset is modelled and is the “reason” why the EFT felt so dominant in the dogfight before the nerfs despite the Rafale and EFT being (allegedly) evenly matched (according to SS, tho that could also just be SS being wrong). Reason I’m theorizing that for those wondering why is because in a situation where 2 jets are within less than 10% performance difference in ITR/STR, one plane being able to reach the intended point of the maneuver 25% quicker would probably still win the fight if both pilots are reacting at about the same time.
at low speeds the EF still flys exactly the same because you cannot realistically pull 12g at 500kph