It is indeed possible that anechoic chambers capable of RCS measurement were included in that table. However my point is that you can’t use that single source to claim that France had an RCS measuring anechoic chambers “decades ahead of many other countries” because other countries could have had dedicated RCS measuring anechoic chambers which were excluded from that paper. It is entirely possible that France had RCS measurement anechoic chambers before most other countries, but more information is needed before that can be said conclusively.
As you mention it is there actually evidence that Dassault’s anechoic chamber at Istres is used for RCS measurement? This paper about Dassault’s testing capabilities only mentions their Anechoic chambers at Istres being used for ECM testing:
In their list of testing techniques they also declare anechoic chamber ECM testing as having started in 1978, but don’t mention RCS testing:
If the anechoic chambers at Istres were capable of RCS testing then it also seems strange that the nEUROn drone was built at Istres, but then sent over 700 km away to Bruz for RCS testing, rather than just being tested on site at Istres.
It’s not a gamble, what you are more than likely experiencing is actually funnily enough just the missile losing lock on you too early - and flying within proximity fuse distance of your last known intercept point BEFORE it goes stupid due to multipath.
What you must also consider is that multipath only begins to affect missiles at 60m above the surface you are flying over, to get it to decoy a missile and avoid splash damaging you - you’ll need to actively be turning and hope it is not coming from above. The higher the impact angle, the less time it will spend in multipath before it pulls its’ course away from your own point of intercept.
Can you show us a single example of a British facility testing radar cross section of airframes prior to the Eurofighter already having been in production?
It most certainly was, as Istres is the primary facility from which new airframes are developed and tested in France. It is not just an anechoic chamber, it is the “centre principal pour la mise au point” (main development center).
This 1989 document states that the TWO anechoic chambers used there are “without equal in EUROPE”. @DirectSupport
It’s always better to keep turning slightly to different directions while multipathing when missile is close. That way (at least in my experience), missile tends to hit ground earlier before reaching you and cause no damage at all or do minor/moderate damage that still let’s you fly the aircraft instead of turning you into a fireball. But terrain sometimes makes this difficult so you have to plan ahead before committing to a turn.
That is the same image I posted, so I am well aware of that document. As I pointed out it states the anechoic chambers were used for ECM testing, with no mention of RCS testing. And despite the nEUROn drone being built at Istres it was sent over 700 km away for RCS testing, which seems like an odd choice if it could have been tested on site.
I’m not saying that RCS testing is definitely not carried out at Istres, just that so far I’ve not seen anything to explicitly say it is. You’ve not provided any evidence that shows RCS testing was conducted at Istres (beyond " It’s an important place so surely they do it"), so haven’t really answered my question or added anything to the conversation.
Is 100 degrees actually true? From my exp 90 is best unless it’s a close range shot, where your plane is pulling 10-20 degrees of aoa, so your rwr lies until your aoa is 0.
but just notching while going in a straight line won’t be enough, because all fox 3s now have inertial guidance
I seem to recall a video made by gaijin about notching, and the notch angle was a bit over 90° in the game
before the buff though, the attacking missile would usually lose lock when i dropped chaff while it was slightly behind the 3-9 line, i don’t really know why they implemented it that way tbh
First off, have you also cross-referenced the other chambers on the list? Allegedly the UK one with Qinetiq has some functions for RCS-measuring.
Looked further into this, it does not seem like an odd choice. In fact, the drone was “tested” for stealth in Sweden at one point. Then at another point it did some operational trials in Sweden before being sent to Italy for stealth testing. Why would they send it to Italy for stealth testing when Sweden was already capable of such a task?
It may simply just be a matter of convenience or other projects taking up time at certain chambers.
Each partner will be responsible for specific project tasks, eliminating the overlap that has bedeviled past cooperative efforts. For example, Saab will handle system design. Dassault will design the air vehicle’s fly-by-wire system; Alenia, the smart weapons bay; and CASA, the ground control station. Flight testing will be shared. Trials will start at Istres, near Marseilles, where final assembly will take place. They will then move to Sweden, for low-observability trials and weapons release, before finishing up in Italy. Radar testing at different frequencies will take place in Rennes, France.
Source: Each partner will be responsible for specific project tasks, eliminating the overlap that has bedeviled past cooperative efforts. For example, Saab will handle system design. Dassault will design the air vehicle’s fly-by-wire system; Alenia, the smart weapons bay; and CASA, the ground control station. Flight testing will be shared. Trials will start at Istres, near Marseilles, where final assembly will take place. They will then move to Sweden, for low-observability trials and weapons release, before finishing up in Italy. Radar testing at different frequencies will take place in Rennes, France.
The nEUROn will continue to undergo testing in France until 2014, at which time it will be
sent to Vidsel in Sweden for a series of operational trials. It will then go to the Perdadesfogu
range (Italy) for further tests, in particular firing and stealth measurements.
Isn’t this also to show it to potential customers ? there was news about spain being interested about getting the nEUROn despite them operating eurofighter.
Europe is already planning on using the MALE drone once that comes online. nEUROn to my understanding is just intended to sharpen Europe’s skills when it comes to collaboration and also technology know-how when it comes to stealth (for both IR and radar). All the technological know-how will transfer over to the 6th gen programs.
Really, then it’s weirdly explained towards the publics, all time it’s talked about nEUROn even from ex pilots/pilots or professionnal it looks like nEURON different of MALE drone.
Well thanks you for explaining.
This and the nEURON will definitely fill different roles because the male looks like an MQ-9 Reaper contemporary whereas nEURON looks more like the basis for a loyal wingman
Until recently, Neuron was going to be only a demonstrator, but now they decided to use it as a basis for a wingman on Rafale F5 and whatever comes after that. They are possibly going to be using a single non afterburning M88.
Still speculation for now, pinch of salt, you know the drill X)
