We are getting closer :D
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where is it from ?
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dev server there is a fox 3 event
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How do you think the rafale would do against the f35 in WT ?
Because the rafale has a low RCS (but not considered stealth) and has an active stealth system SPECTRA
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Right now, it has no chance in BVR because electronic warfare isn’t modelled, if it got SPECTRA that wasn’t nerfed then it would alright.
Again, fantastic aircraft, but the current war thunder environment means the F-35 can see it sooner, launch sooner, defend sooner and theres no guarantee it can see the F-35 back.
I’m not a specialist, but from what I understand the SPECTRA should jam the radar frequency and make it hard to lock for the f35, is it right?
But i guess it will be hard to implement it
In the current War Thunder enviroment I would actually say the opposite is the case.
We don’t have 500km maps so when we take off we are at most roughly 100km away from the target. That’s at SL. Once we reach altitude to actually have a decent hit or kill probability we are likely closer than 80km. That’s getting close to the range where the strongest radars will likely start picking it up.
Doesn’t mean that they can track them reliably at that range, but it might be enough for a FOX-3 shot so it will in the end force them to be defensive as well.
The F-35 also has a bigger RCS than the F-22 so we will likely see the F-35 pop up on radar sooner than the F-22.
Im not an expert on EW or Spectra but the premise is that it basically produces so much “noise” that systems cannot see or lock specific targets.
I’d imagine in-game i think it would look like the scopes of non-pulse dopplar/MTI radars where you cant really see anything at low altitude and the system cant lock much.
I personally just dont see it. F-35 is several times more stealthy than the rafale even though it is V-LO for a non-stealth aircraft it still isn’t fully stealth.
Furthermore the US claims the F-35’s radar is the best radar is has in service on a fighter IIRC.
Its basically stacked against the Rafale from the beginning without EW. If the F-35 gets 120C or D is gets even worse as it can reliably hit in excess on 100km.
I think without EW its just completely overconfident. Once EW is implemented then things like IRST and EW and flight performance play more of an effect particularly as SPECTRA is one of the better systems in service.
Take this with a grain of salt, this is supposed to be from educated guesses based on the RCS of the planes.
I would assume the Rafale to have a better radar than the Su-27.
(although I am not sure on that so feel free to correct me on that)
That would mean that the F-35 can be seen on radar as far as 60km out. Which when checking the current War Thunder maps, means you can pretty much see them immediately once you gain altitude.
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Rafale is commonly compared to be around Typhoon level (very probably a little better but there are no hard figures and Mig-23M does disagree with that statament). Typhoon/Rafale/SuperHornet is stealthier than the Flanker family for sure.
We could presume they can both see eachother (with the F-35 likely having a stronger lock without EW factored in). The issue is not even necessarily with the Rafale’s own radar but with the missile seeker.
METEOR does not use an AESA seeker, neither does the current MICA although you could always use an IR, so the ARH’s may struggle once they go pitbull and it isn’t helped by the Rafale only having 1-way datalink.
Whereas the AIM-120 also does not have AESA but doesn’t necessarily need it.
Don’t take my opinion as fact of course, the guys initial question was an opinion statement.
As I’ve said with EW it becomes an entirely different situation.
At best you get a tradeoff where both can kill the other but its just gonna be easier for the F-35
The Rafale can basically be thought of as a halfway compromise between an F-15EX vs F-35 compromise. The best of both worlds while alao having the worst of both worlds.
Whatever category it is worse than the F-15EX at, it is better than the F-35 (like ground pounding). Whatever it is worse than the F-35 at, it is better than the F-15EX at.
I don’t like to comment too much on the air to air differences until both planes come into the game. But I will say this, the Rafale has more air to air missiles, and also more potent air to air missiles. The Meteor as well as the eventual MICA NGs are better than anything the US has in service at this time.
While the F-35 is fully stealth, the Rafale would be able to rely on its MAWS, LWS, RWR, radar, IRST/TV and the sensor fusion suite to be able to locate and track the F-35 for targeting solutions.
Bug reports are already set up for the Rafale to get an RCS of 0.01m^2. But this would only matter for clean RCS anyway. It goes out the window when weapons/fuel tanks are on it. The clean RCS would help once the Rafale dumps all of its missiles and needs to escape back to base.
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Thats true, kinda unfortunate the Rafale doesnt use semi-recessed pylons like the Kf-21
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I mean, allegedly the Meteor missile makes extensive use of composite materials to also try to be stealthy, for the same benefit. So that shouldn’t impact the RCS too much. Another benefit would be that the Meteor shows up on radar when it’s too late.
let’s not forget the OSF (IRST)
granted it probably doesn’t work well in bad conditions, but with a clear weather you can probably engage at decent distances.
I also saw recently that the next gen of rafale coming 2030+, i think will use a new type of radar (low frequency I think) which should be able to to see the stealth aircraft at a way bigger range
I would mention that the F-35 has all of these systems too but yes.
It does supposedly incorporate lessons from Storm Shadow so it will have some degree of RCS reduction particularly as only 2 of the 4 aircraft that use it have semi-recessed pylons (EF and KF-21).
It is useful for targeting, slight double edged sword as it uses a Laser rangefinder for ranging and both the F-35 and Rafale have LWS, but then again does it matter if both of them know each-other is there anyway, for guiding something like a MICA IR it should be fine regardless.
Yes, would be more useful against the F-22 which lacks those systems.
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